Sabine McNeill sentencing postponed to 9 January

Sabine McNeill’s sentencing hearing on 19 December at Southwark Crown Court began an hour late due to another trial going overtime, with the result that the actual sentencing portion of the hearing had to be delayed until 9 January 2019.

Nonetheless, in a moving and emotional session, the court heard Victim Impact Statements from some of the victims who had testified during the trial. One was read to the court by a victim, while three were read by Miranda Moore QC, who prosecuted the case.

One member of the public gallery noted that two of Sabine’s friends seated ahead of them were snorting and shaking their heads during the reading of the impact statements. Sabine, meanwhile, kept her eyes closed

Further statements had been accepted from people who had been directly affected by Sabine’s actions. However, as these individuals lacked official standing to speak during the sentencing hearing, their impact statements were included in HHJ Sally Cahill QC’s bundle for her review.

Discussion on sentencing: Prosecution

Moore posited that the statutory provisions of five to 10 years for counts 1–4 (stalking) should be followed. On counts 5, 6, 8, 20, and 21 (breaches of restraining order), she noted that the maximum sentence for each offence was five years.

Judge Cahill also mentioned the “technical breach” committed in 2016, to which Sabine had pleaded guilty and had received a conditional discharge on 17 October 2016.

Regarding sentencing guidelines, Judge Cahill said that the court is obliged to follow these, unless to do so would be contrary to the interests of justice.

Moore reviewed a list taken from the sentencing guidelines. She pointed out the high degree of planning involved in Sabine’s crimes, and noted that her activities were persistent and for a prolonged period. As far as the harm caused, she stated that this falls into “Category 1”, which specified distress, psychological harm, and changes to the victim’s lifestyle.

Judge Cahill pondered whether she could consider counts 5 and upward as aggravating factors for counts 1–4 and sentence accordingly on 1–4, or whether she ought to sentence counts 1–4, with counts 5–21 sentenced consecutively.

Moore said she believed it should be the latter, given Sabine’s disregard for orders of the court, as well as the fact that her breaches were persistent, blatant, and prolonged. She pointed out that Sabine had been released on bail when breaches 20 and 21 occurred, which needs to be answered.

Moore pointed out aggravating factors, which included using a position of trust to facilitate the offence, as Sabine had been a McKenzie friend at the time when she posted the videos and medical records of young children.

During this discussion, Moore also mentioned that ongoing threatening or illegal posts from certain of Sabine’s supporters—names such as Angela Power-Disney, Andy Devine, and Thomas Dunn were mentioned—would be passed along to the judge.

On the issue of “good character”, Moore said that while Sabine had had no previous convictions, she suggested that Judge Cahill consider her previous actions in which ancillary orders had been set out. This must be for Judge Cahill to determine, she said.

Criminal behaviour order

Moore said that she had drafted a Criminal Behaviour Order (CBO) for Judge Cahill’s consideration.  

Judge Cahill asked whether Moore had considered the possibility of imposing a lifetime ban from the internet. However, Moore pointed out that as the internet has become such an integral part of modern life, this had not been proposed. In addition, she said, it was claimed that the internet was a source of income for Sabine, in her role as a web publisher. Judge Cahill questioned this, however, as Sabine receives an old age pension.

It was further discussed whether Sabine should have access to internet, and whether provisions could be put in place to monitor this. Judge Cahill said that if Sabine were to be allowed access to the internet, strict control should be included over that access. Moore agreed to draft this into her proposed CBO.

It was agreed that the restraining order imposed by Judge Worsley should remain in place.

The first condition in the draft version of the CBO will require positive action regarding the take-down of the blogs and other material regarding the Hampstead matter and all those affected by it. The practicalities of this were discussed, and it was agreed that Sabine should provide logon details to facilitate this.

“It is now appropriate to act and remove everything”, Judge Cahill stated, adding that a timeline would be put in place for this to be accomplished. Following some discussion, it was agreed that Sabine’s defence counsel would begin the process, and that they would concurrently provide the passwords/sign-ins to the prosecution. This handover and take downs were to start immediately.

As it was so late it was agreed to postpone sentencing to 9 January. Moore said that she would require another 15 minutes, and Tana Adkin QC said she would require about an hour; it was decided that the remainder of the sentencing hearing should be accomplished in about half a day.

86 thoughts on “Sabine McNeill sentencing postponed to 9 January

  1. Reality has dawned on Sabine, I think. So much for her arrogance and narcissism. Take heed, APD!

    Thank you thank you EC. Happy days. Sabine really needed teaching a lesson for her ATTITUDE of indifference, her lack of ability or desire or feeling responsible to actually research and understand what everyone was trying to tell her. She got every chance and thought she was beyond the law. Glad the long arm of the law eventually reigned her in.

    I can see Sabine on rule 43. Other prisoners, not the nicest crowd, won’t tolerate her nonsense inside. She’ll be targeted in a real way. As she’ll stick out like a sore thumb in there. Other prisoners will gang up and amuse themselves with her, punish her because of her sense that she is so ‘special’. That will be much worse than the loss of her liberty or the internet. And it seems she has a way to go before she leaves HMP.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. The disrespect that some observers showed towards the court and towards the victims of Ella and Abraham’s hoax is upsetting. I recognise that they have not yet accepted that the whole thing was a fabrication, and that Ella and Abraham were the only abusers of P & Q; I hope that they will one day understand that they have been manipulated to believe lies just as P & Q were.

    But even if they are still in thrall to Ella and Abraham’s fantasies, they should not have shown such disrespect to the court.

    It never ceases to surprise me that those people who claim to care about “victims” can be so blind to actual suffering.

    Liked by 5 people

  3. “During this discussion, Moore also mentioned that ongoing threatening or illegal posts from certain of Sabine’s supporters – names such as Angela Power-Disney, Andy Devine, and Thomas Dunn were mentioned – would be passed along to the judge.”

    Liked by 4 people

    • Simply great news that Sabine’s supporters are being passed along to the judge as well as Sabine’s sentencing, when it happens. It had to be done & it would be great if this case might deter these stupid claims in future, although I doubt it sadly.

      Liked by 1 person

      • I do think that this case sets an important precedent for those who would use these false stories to commit what amounts to domestic terrorism. Innocent citizens were put in fear of their own and their children’s lives, on the basis of a sick couple’s sexual fantasies about mass child sexual abuse.

        It is, as Miranda Moore says, filth, and it’s being treated as such by the court, I’m pleased to note.

        Liked by 2 people

  4. A very good synopsis. There were in fact two in person witness statements but I won;t expand so as not to identify the individuals.

    All I will add is that Judge Cahill affirmed that she recognised the significance of this case and that she will be allocating herself time to make substantial sentencing comments.

    Liked by 3 people

    • She’s been found guilty. She’s going to prison. She was remanded for breaking her court order. Christmas doesn’t enter into it. She’s in jail for a reason. They just don’t get it do they ?

      Liked by 2 people

  5. The mention of APD & others is highly significant. With Sabine’s conviction it makes them very vulnerable for civil actions for compensation for their persistent campaigns.
    Easy said than done of course but ever so slowly the tide is turning against promoters of (real) ‘fake news’ of which the Hampstead Satanic case is a prime example.

    Alex Jones has already settled in the #pizzagate rubbish matter- I hear it cost him in the region of $300K in legal costs for a case that didn’t go to court. He already has the Sandy Hook parents to deal with and that odd Roger Stone character has already admitted spreading fake news via Jones and is claiming legal costs -$500K to date- are crucifying him.

    Irish residents should take the case seriously. Irish laws on harassment are similar to the UK’s. Andy Devine should not think he is safe in Greece from where he pontificates. Don’t know if he owns his own property but I believe he stills own one in the UK.

    If it were me I’d be utterly ruthless in pursuing these fools who have set out to destroy people’s lives on gossip alone despite courts proving their victims innocent. There is a real case here of a loosely and often tight inner group who conspired to pervert the course of justice and have innocent people jailed.
    It’s always a difficult charge to prove.

    # Posted totally for free & without any monetary payment from any Rothschild, Soros, UK Intelligence agency, the CIA, Mossad, ASIO or Freemason.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. Meanwhile Marc ” White Powder” Armour ( not “white power”- geddit?. Editor: collect your belongings and go home) has posted the following Breaking News:

    “QUEEN Elizabeth II has called on the British Army to storm Number 10 Downing Street this evening in a bid to relieve current Prime Minister Theresa May and her staff of their duties, WWN has learned.
    In an unprecedented move which will no doubt change the face of British politics forever, the Queen has insisted that she will now take care of Brexit negotiations with the European Union, the DUP and the Republic of Ireland.”

    Liked by 1 person

        • Are you really George Dufont?
          Because I have a very important matter I want to discuss. Marc ” White Powder” Armour claims HRH has ordered the army to storm No 10. but as far as I know the real King of Great Britain (and all Her Dominions) King John Wananoonoo of Rotarua (I have a cousin that really lives there- I’ve emailed her to see if she has come across her Regent at the local supermarket) apparently dismissed Her Maj and Parliament only just last week so why is Liz banging on the gates of No 10 ?. (And even more importantly- will Larry The Cat be safe?).
          This info comes from a trusted source Andy Tick Tock Devine.

          Yet I thought you as a major player in the International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State had already arrested Brenda (and The Pope) so why is she free to wander down The Mall and cause havoc in Westminster when the real King of GB has already sacked these posers and phonies?. (I’ve left a message for His Majesty John at is HQ in the Finchley Road Travel Lodge but no response yet)

          Liked by 2 people

  7. It is heartbreaking reading about the immense distress caused to the victims of the hoax.

    Thank you for reporting all of this EC. I appreciate that, in addition to the immense hard work involved, that it must have been harrowing to listen to all of this. If I had been able to I would have attended too, just to support you, but sadly I now live far away and, for cost reasons, have to plan travel far in advance. I narrowly missed being able to attend which wad frustrating for me.

    I feel extremely angry about the trauma caused to the child and adult victims of the hoax and I am extremely concerned about the long term impact on the mental health.

    As I said in a previous post, I am extremely concerned about what will happen to victims should they seek professional help for the emotional trauma and distress they suffered at the hands of Sabine et al.

    The Camden and Islington NHS Mental Health Trust (the trust that would likely be offering services to Hampstead residents affected by the hoax) has very bad form when it comes to the provision of mental health services to people suffering from mental health problems relating to trauma.

    As readers here may be aware the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust (under the auspices of The Camden and Islington NHS Mental Health Trust) has a long and inglorious history of promoting SRA related conspiracy theories and also of “treating” vulnerable adults for SRA.

    Apart from the many abuses against Carol Felstead the Tavistock and Portman were involved in the publication of this insane document, a fascinating and horrifying read which readers here may be familiar with.

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/389624/response/969467/attach/4/REDACTED%20REPORT.pdf

    The tentacles of the SRA believers at the Tavi extend to adult mental health NHS services offered in central London locations to people suffering from trauma. I have horrific personal experience of this.

    When a person has been abused, violated and traumatised the last thing they need is to be abused violated and traumatised all over again by batshit insane quacks and yet this is exactly what is happening right now in various parts of London and other UK locations. Of particular concern to me are London, Sussex, Surrey, Devon, Cornwall and various locations in Scotland.

    I hope that the innocent victims of the Hampstead hoax can gain some sense of closure and satisfaction from Sabine’s conviction. Sadly the trauma and emotional injuries inflicted by various scammers, hoaxers and trolls do not just go away with a conviction. It is my understanding that due to the ongoing actions of various trolls and the fact that the videos of the children are still all over the internet, that the abuses and false accusations continue to this day. Victims continue to be abused and traumatised, they continue to fear for their own safety and that of their children. If they seek help with the kind of mental health problems that routinely arise from protracted abuses and traumas they will be playing Russian roulette with their mental health and are fairly likely to end up with an SRA believing therapist.

    The situation is outrageous and more should be done to support the hoax victims and to purge our mental health services of SRA promoting quacks and charlatans.

    Liked by 3 people

    • 100 % right on Surreal Hustle! The “social” services and shrinks in London and outside London are the very ones that have been promoting hoaxes as the one here being talked about for decades.

      Like

      • Thanks Ren
        I am sure there are some good, sane people working in social services and in the various NHS mental health trusts, however there are also some psychopathic grifters and some who are probably just deluded or brainwashed. I have had first hand, personal contact with some of these people. Some are deluded in the same way that Neelu is deluded, difference is that they are in a position of power and authority over vulnerable people, they have letters after their names. It is a scary situation.

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  8. Pingback: ‘Satan-sniffer’ hoaxer remanded in custody pending sentencing next month – Fahrenheit211

    • To Common Porpoise. I am definitely on your side with regards to this and the other appalling and damaging Satanic Ritual Abuse hoaxes. As a civic nationalist (not I might add an ethno-nationalist, which I believe is another form of racialistic politics) I am incredibly alarmed and disconcerted to see that these tin foil hat lunatics are trying to take advantage of those who are becoming newly politicised because of the issues of Brexit and child sexual exploitation.

      I’m seeing these types turn up at patriot demonstrations in order to ply their guff and to try to gain recruits to their various off the wall causes such as VIP paedo rings/’SRA/Melanie Shaw as ‘whistleblower’/Freeman on the Land stuff and the latest one ‘Finchley Road’. So far these fools are in a minority on these demos but that still does not mean that they should not be denounced and discredited. I think these causes as well as being wrong in themselves, are also distractions from other more pressing matters that are rooted in reality rather than fantasy. Demonstrations whether they be put on by the Left or the Right will often attract ‘outliers’ (when I was on the Left it was The Stalin Society who were this sort of outlier) but organisers need to be careful that these outliers do not end up having influence over either the demonstration itself or the organisation that is putting them on. The SRA and other tin foil hatters are dangerous to whatever political entity that takes them seriously, they are the disruptive equivalent of the ‘Bombs Not Jobs’ crew of anarchists who used to turn up at CND demos in the 80’s.

      I dare say that my politics may be considerably further to the political Right than many on here, but I hope that despite that we can agree that SRA hoaxes and similar sorts of very hard to prove tin foil hattery should be condemned. Having the SRA fantasists influencing political movements and groups is not a good thing no matter whether the political group is of the Left or of the Right. I’d like to conclude my comment by praising EC for their court reporting in the Sabine McNeil case. As a former court reporter from years back I saw it as an exemplar of the reporting of court cases should be done and one that should be studied by any citizen journalist who aspires to accuracy.

      Best Regards
      Joshua

      Liked by 4 people

          • And on his ‘awards’ page, he says he’s against Islam and Islam apologists. And he has a whole section dedicated to insulting Pakistan. He’s an EDL/BNP boot boy, quite frankly.

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          • He seems to be a completely uncritical supporter of Israel, but his hatred of Muslims is so extreme that I suspect that he is a troll posting to cause conflict between Jews and Muslims and possibly even to generate antisemitism. Political jujitsu is how it looks to me.

            Having said that I don’t have the hours to spend researching his website to be sure. Something is not right with his blog and that’s for sure.

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  10. Trying to pull together day one. I wasn’t taking notes, so this is from memory.

    Caveat: Any sentence is at the discretion of the judge. The prosecution and defence make their cases for aggravating and mitigating circumstances. However, I believe that if the guidelines are not followed without good reason that is grounds for appeal – although appeal could also result in an increase in sentence. For reasons of space, I’ll leave out non-related factors.

    We heard the prosecution case, so at this stage there are no defence mitigating factors in this.

    Offence category

    Culpability:

    A Very high culpability – the extreme nature of one or more culpability B factors or the extreme culpability indicated by a combination of culpability B factors may elevate to category A.

    B High culpability:
    • Conduct intended to maximise fear or distress
    • High degree of planning and/or sophisticated offence
    • Persistent action over a prolonged period

    Harm:

    Category 1
    • Very serious distress caused to the victim
    • Significant psychological harm caused to the victim
    • Victim caused to make considerable changes to lifestyle to avoid contact

    If seemed settled that everyone agreed on the harm level. Prosecution case is culpability is at least B, but they invited the judge to consider A. This will set the starting point for the sentence. B-1 is 2 years 6 months. A-1 is 5 years.

    Next, aggravating factors are applied. A statutory one that must be applied here is Offence committed whilst on bail. However, others were mentioned, and in fact some brought up by the judge:

    • Using a position of trust to facilitate the offence – She obtained the videos as a McKenzie Friend.
    • Grossly violent or offensive material sent
    • Impact of offence on others, particularly children
    • Offence committed against those working in the public sector or providing a service to the public – Church officials are considered as being in this category.
    • Failure to comply with current court orders

    After that mitigation is applied. As I mentioned we haven’t heard the defence case, but some of these were brought up:

    • Remorse – The judge noted that her statement “I still believe the children” showed no remorse.
    • Good character and/or exemplary conduct – The judge queried this. There is probably something we don’t know.
    • Determination and/or demonstration of steps having been taken to address offending behaviour – It was noted that she had not taken any steps to remove the material, however, she has handed over all the passwords to her sites.

    I would expect the defence to highlight:

    • Serious medical condition requiring urgent, intensive or long-term treatment – I don’t think she benefits from this but the defence are entitled to use it.
    • Age

    Next factor is assistance to the prosecution. My understanding is that she will get credit for handing over all her passwords.

    Then there is a reduction for a guilty plea. Obviously this does not apply here.

    Final factor is dangerousness. I don’t think the “I still believe the children” and multiple breaches of restraining orders and bail conditions and the on-going and current harassment by her supporters will do anything to suggest to the judge that she is anything other than dangerous but that is my opinion.

    The last step is the Totality Principle. Where multiple offenses are involved in a course of offenses, what is a just total. This is why in the UK there are less consecutive sentences than in the US. However, the prosecution mentioned consecutive, so I got the impression that they wanted the breaches added to the stalking sentence. I may have misinterpreted that.

    There are then procedural steps, such as compensation orders, restraining orders and reasons. As have been pointed out to me, only the time on tagged bail comes off the headline sentence. Time on remand is automatically applied by the prison service.

    That was longer than I anticipated. I am not a lawyer or qualified in any way. If anyone else wishes to look into it, the sentencing guidelines are here:

    https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Intimidatory-Offences-Guideline_WEB.pdf

    Liked by 2 people

  11. Well, of course, we don’t know how this will end up. Part of me thought, well I feel sorry for a 74 year old lady perhaps going to prison (I’m getting “up there” in age myself now though a bit younger than Sabine). The other part of me thinks how she made innocents suffer. Again, there are genuine cases of child abuse and if this case makes the average man or woman sceptical of allegations of child abuse in general what good is that?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Also worth bearing in mind is that 74 is not what it used to be, Hilary Clinton is 71. Donald Trump is 72. Robert De Niro is 75. Harrison Ford is 76. Al Pacino is 78. The average life expectancy for women in the UK is 83. A third are expected to live into their 90s.

      That’s not to say that I disagree with the age related sentencing guidelines. A 10 year sentence at 20 is clearly a different rank of punishment to a 10 year sentence at 74. However, her defence has stated that she is still working as a web designer, so the “weak and feeble old lady” angle doesn’t wash.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Our conceptions of age change as we start seeing in the years ourselves, it’s just the thinking in our brains that haven’t caught up when talking about someone else’s age.

        In my case I think of my own parents when they were my age & think of how old they were, that’s from a child’s conception of course but now that I am there, it’s completely different plus they had a hard life with no mod cons, little or no access to travel, etc., we are not aging so quickly nowadays. I hope to live into my hundred’s though as my dear Grandma did.

        Liked by 1 person

    • It has certainly this case has made me skeptical about claims of abuse to an extent I wasn’t before. Ultimately there are cases of complete fabrication like this one, there are real cases of horrible and sustained abuse (though they are never as gothic as the allegations made in the fake cases) and there are a number of instances where cases of real abuse have been latched onto by various leeches with no scruples about claiming compensation that they aren’t entitled to.

      That reminds me; if the BBC’s lawyers were made aware that someone who had claimed compensation for alleged abuse by a member of its staff, but that person had previously made a number statements which clearly indicated such abuse had never happened, do you think they might try and claim their money back?

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    • So she’s asking for Paterson and Neelu to contact her 🤔

      Given APD’s habit of reposting information sent to her in confidence and we know the court are receiving information which could lead to further action, is it not time the hoaxers started giving thought that APD is perhaps a GCHQ double agent? 😉

      Liked by 1 person

    • By the way, I have been open about that chapter in my life, that was shortlived and tbh, I used to clip mostly….it was 45yrs ago….. but what it has meant is that others caught up in that lifestyle have felt able to open up to me and know they won’t be judged, which for me makes it worth any shame that creeps like eddie or others might try and heap on me.

      Liked by 2 people

      • And bear in mind the Rotherham victim’s were caught up in a similar lifestyle where they were taken advantage of.
        It’s never something that should be used against anyone given how difficult life can be at times and what people must do to survive but you are correct: it’s an insight into Eddieisok’s mindset and his intent to demean women.

        Liked by 3 people

    • He’s grotesque. Apparently has some sort of issue with strong women, and feels a need to cut them down. Sadly he doesn’t realise it just makes him look even smaller and weaker than he is.

      Anyone want to show me where in the Bible Jesus said that the path to righteousness involved slagging off other people?

      Liked by 2 people

    • And that £40,000 will be dwarfed by legal costs the defendant will be hit with.
      Very illuminating reading the Judgement as it’s a great example of how people think they can talk their way out of some offense but really melt like butter in the hands of a good barrister who is well prepared.
      Alarming that the defendant was once a police officer. And the irony that he runs a bailiff’s firm which must be finicky about the law when acting.
      And I wonder if it’s yet dawned on all those who retweeted the offending message (“Tommy Robinson”) could also be sued for libel?.

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  12. Angie, Cat & Eddie Isacock talking utter bollocks and harassing EC:

    Oh and they appear to be doing a complete U-turn on Sheva and admitting she was right all along 😆

    Thanks to Postnein & Clara for this find

    Liked by 2 people

    • I’ve never given much credence to the theory that Angie is a man but she’s looking particularly butch in this video 😆

      Liked by 1 person

      • LOL au contraire, mon frère. A less interesting crew I cannot imagine. Very minor players, ordinary in the extreme. I do find it funny that they seem so determined to learn as much as they can about me though. 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

      • I wish somebody had told me that I am now a crime boss. It feels like a big responsibility, and I’m not 100% sure what’s involved.

        Is there a probationary period? Do I get yearly bonuses? Do I have to own a hairless cat and sit in front of a large TV screen? Would it be okay to just shave my existing cat(s) and use them instead? Do I have to supply my own sharks with lasers, or do they come with the job? So many questions.

        Liked by 2 people

    • “The day they put that gagging order in place”.
      Sort of sums up the shallowness of their collective thinking. The “gagging order” was on publishing victim’s names or identifying them.
      Eddieisok apparently doesn’t even know what his suspended sentence is for. Our pleas for these folk to visit a solicitor for advice always fall on deaf ears.
      As for Angie and her investigative skills! (oi you up the back there- I’ve warned you before about that snorting & giggling in class).

      Liked by 2 people

  13. 24.10 onwards,talk about high opinion of themselves…
    No you aren’t a ‘researcher’ Andy, you are a smuck with a mobile phone…
    ‘Oh I had to move to Greece to stay safe’- its called being on the run, you could ask Sabine or Ella and Abe about that, they have had extensive experience in running overseas…

    Liked by 2 people

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