Yesterday we shared a full transcription of the first 20 minutes of one of the key pieces of evidence in the Hampstead SRA hoax. The audio recording made by Abraham Christie’s brother-in-law, Jean-Clement Yaohirou, was made starting at 10 p.m. on the night of 4 September 2014, immediately after Ella, Abraham, and Ella’s children arrived in London from Morocco.
Jean-Clement made the audio with Abraham’s approval, and was concerned enough about what had been discussed that he passed it over to police early the next morning. This resulted in the police calling on Abe and Ella on the evening of 5 September, which started the police investigation into the hoax.
Yesterday, we left off with Jean-Clement answering a phone call from Ella, who assured him she was on her way and would be at his house soon. As commenter Dave noted yesterday, this is odd in itself: with her children allegedly in mortal danger from a child-raping, baby-eating cult, Ella chose to let them go off with Abraham, while she stayed back to have a shower and refresh herself after their journey.
We resume after Jean-Clement has hung up the phone.
Abraham: Where is she?
J-C: She’s five, ten minutes away from here she says.
Abraham: Okay, you’re gonna get to know her now. Her five-ten minutes is half an hour. You’re gonna get to know her. (To a child): Eh, don’t go to sleep! We’re gonna have a sandwich. Come on, come sit at the table.
J-C: Can I get you some plates, or are you okay?
Abraham: Eh, we’re okay. Wash your hands, don’t make a mess. Come and sit over there together, yeah, please. You’d like a mint tea?
Child P & Child Q: Yes, please.
Child P: Wash your hands, Child Q. …
Abraham: Is there anything you’d like, Jean-Clement?
J-C: No, I’m all right, thank you.
Abraham: You sure?
Abraham: Is everything enough?
Both children: Yes, it’s enough.
Abraham: Sit round at the table properly, son, don’t let me tell you again. Don’t let me tell you again. You sit round properly, thank-you. Thank-you. Don’t let me tell you again, sit round the table properly.
Abe admonishes one of the children not to fall asleep, although it’s about 10:30 at night and they’ve just had a long journey. He chastises Child Q, saying “don’t let me tell you again”—or what?
Abraham: What are the sandwiches like?
Both children: Yum.
Abraham: You sure?
Child P: Perfect.
Child Q: I was going to use a napkin.
J-C: Put it on, put it on please.
(inaudible conversation between J-C and Abraham)
Abraham: No, it’s not in videos, it’s in the camera.
J-C: No, see I cannot use that iPhone.
[loud moaning noise]
Abraham: Shut up, June! (to the children): That’s my sister.
Child Q: Why didn’t she get any [inaud.]
Abraham: What? Make sure this is on…make sure. (To child): Take your shoes off! Let’s go and say hello to June, she’s awake now.
J-C: She was fast asleep, Aby!
Abraham: We’ll come say hello quickly.
J-C: She’s resting…
Child P: She’s asleep…
Abraham (talking with mouth full): Come on! She’s not, she’s awake.
J-C: Ah, thank you for the video, I’ll see that now.
Jean-Clement seems used to being overruled by Abraham, even in his own house. He placates him, tries to gently remonstrate with him (“She was fast asleep, Aby!), but ultimately lets him do as he pleases.
Abraham: What’s that, Jean-Clement?
J-C: I said thank you for putting it up. I’m going to charge it.
Abraham: Oh, that’s just one, Jean-Clement. There’s about 10 videos, they’re all about two minutes. So you got some visual, yeah?
J-C: I’m going to turn the light off Aby.
J-C: Well I thought we were going up?
(shuffling sounds drown out background conversation here—Abe talking to children)
Abraham: And guess what?
Abraham: Their social worker. His name is Richie [redacted]. Guess what?
J-C: Which borough?
J-C: Hampstead. Or Camden.
Abraham: He does sex to you, doesn’t he?
Children (in unison): Mmm-hmm.
“Guess what?” Abe sounds like a child himself here, challenging Jean-Clement to guess what else he has to tell. When he asks the children, “He does sex to you, doesn’t he?” the children barely register the question, but just keep eating.
[more hard-to-hear discussion about how best to plug the phone in]
[shuffling noises, door opening and shutting, footsteps]
Abraham: So your mother’s five minutes? Long five minutes, innit?
Child Q: Yeah. It’s already 15 minutes, then.
Abraham: Listen. I don’t [inaud.] in my home. [clapping sound] You want a bit more?
Child Q: Yes please.
Abraham: You need a bit more ’cause you’re going to have a little chocolate brownie with it and strawberries, is that all right?
Child Q: Mmm.
Child Q: [says something very quietly]
Abraham: At the table, you be quiet and you speak when you’re spoken to. Understand?
Child Q: Yes, Papa.
Abraham: Come on. Have some respect. Be respectful children, eh.
Child Q: And let’s help the children, let’s help each other.
Abraham: Yeah, let’s help each other and let’s make sure that no more children get killed, eh.
Child Q: And we might uh –
Child P: And make sure Papa goes to jail.
Abraham: Make sure if Jean-Clement doesn’t help us we write a book and we tell them that he didn’t help us, all right? We write the book and we tell that he didn’t help us. We came to him, we relied upon him, and he didn’t help. We write the book and we make him to be a very uncomfortable character in the book, yeah? (laughs loudly)
This last piece can only be read as a threat to Abe’s brother-in-law: if he does not do as Abe says, and help him, Abe will write a book and “make him to be a very uncomfortable character”.
Surprisingly, none of the hoaxers who cite this video as evidence that the cult was real have ever mentioned this rather extraordinary bit.
Abe had been in touch with Jean-Clement by phone about the allegations of ritual abuse since July 2014. In the judgment issued 19m March 2015, Mrs Justice Pauffley stated:
In August 2014, at a time when he was holiday in France, Jean-Clement Yaohirou received ‘phone calls and messages from Mr Christie in which he said he had information regarding the abuse of children. In evidence, Mr Yaohirou said that Abraham “had not been coming forward with specific information” but was “trying to give (him) justification.” Abraham Christie had said that a church, a school in Hampstead and a police station in Haringey were involved. Mr Yaohirou had asked whether Mr Christie “had evidence”. He said, “Yes;” and “that was it for July.”
Two things are evident here: as we stated in yesterday’s post, Abe admitted that they had taken the children to Morocco specifically to “get away from the cult”, whereas he and Ella would later tell their followers repeatedly that they had gone to Morocco on holiday, and had then inadvertently discovered that the children were involved in a mysterious cult.
And it’s clear that Abraham had been discussing this “cult” with his brother-in-law since before they left for Morocco, and that Jean-Clement had intimated that he would need evidence of such a charge.
To have Abraham now turn around and issue a not-very-subtle threat—”if you don’t help us we will ‘write a book’ and make your life very uncomfortable”—looks an awful lot as though he is laying down the gauntlet: “Believe what I bring you…or else”.
Abraham: It’s okay.
J-C: There’s another video.
Abraham: If you bring the phone to me I can play all of them.
J-C: No, it’s like, erm, it’s out of charge, Aby.
J-C: Out of charge.
Abraham: I took them to my friend’s hotel in Morocco. Quiet.
Abraham: We had a nice time, didn’t we?
Abraham: What did we do?
Both children: Mmm-hmm…yes…
Child P: I had chips…
Child Q: I had…um, I liked it.
Child P: Really peaceful, really peaceful.
Note the lack of enthusiasm when Abraham asks the children whether they enjoyed their trip to Morocco. At first they say nothing. Then, when it becomes clear that Abe is pressing the issue, they try to placate him.
In this next piece, it sounds as though they are looking at the family pictures in Jean-Clement’s house:
Child P: Let me see how your sister looks like.
Abraham: Here she is with my Mum. That’s my sister on the left, and that’s my Mum.
Child P: Your Mum looks really pretty.
Abraham: Aww …
Child Q: Your mum looks just like our mum. What do you think of your mum? Really pretty and really nice. Does she do like hugging and presents, like giving you presents, and er…she’s a kind person?
Child P: Is she a kind person, like, a kind mum?
Abe: She was a nice mum.
In the version of this conversation published by Kristie Sue Costa, she has the children saying that their own mother is kind, rather than asking Abraham whether his mother was kind to him. Not that we are surprised.
We now hear the sound of the videos with RD’s children playing for several minutes. At various points, the videos are paused and conversation can be heard:
Abraham: Perfect. Perfect. So it’s real.
Child Q: But you actually did…that’s good what you did, that ‘they can’t look after the babies’.
Here, Child Q is referring to his sister’s statement in one of the videos, where she said that babies were taken from families which could not afford to care for them. By odd coincidence, this is a theme which is frequently brought up by the Association of McKenzie Friends.
[more video playback; video pauses on children saying they had read the book Dune]
J-C: What the book called?
Abraham: It’s a book that I chose.
J-C: Oh, all right.
Abraham: And in the book—it’s a cult classic, you should read it, it’s brilliant—in the book it teaches you that ‘fear is the mind-killer’. Any fear kills your mind, you can’t think properly. So she said she read the book and it taught her….
J-C: I thought I saw it.
Abraham: In my house in Marrakech.
J-C: That’s right.
Ironically, Abe refers to Dune, one of the best-selling science fiction novels of all time, as a “cult classic”. Sorry, we just had to point this out. Yes, we might have sniggered.
Abraham: You want to ask me something else? What do you want to ask me?
J-C: About the cult. Em, when do they practise, apart from those three days?
Abraham: When do they practise? Tell Jean-Clement when they practise.
J-C: What’s your name again?
Child P: [gives name].
J-C: Child P. How do you spell that?
Child P: [spells name]
J-C: Oh, well.
Child P: It’s just like…sometimes they practise in the morning sometimes. First thing in the morning they practise.
J-C: Early morning.
Child P: So when we come to school, when the parents…when my mum leaves me, she left the school, goes off, because they check, if it’s clear. If Mum’s there, if she’s around the area of the school. And after if it’s all clear, because they know what kind of car Mum has, because I told them…
Abraham: Who looks out to see if the coast is clear?
Child P: Mr ____…
Abraham: Who is Mr _____? He’s the big guy, the caretaker?
Child P: Yes.
Abraham: Does he do sex to you?
Child P: Yes. First time…
Abraham: (interrupts) What about his brothers? Has he got two brothers that come to…
Child P: Yes, he’s got two brothers, one younger one and one…two younger brothers.
Abraham: Do they work at the school?
Child P: Yeah…no, no! They don’t work at the school…
Abraham: Why do they come to the school?
Child P: Because they are his brothers. They need them…
Abraham: But why do they come there?
Child P: Sex.
Abraham: Sex with who?
Child P: The children.
Abraham: Which children?
Child P: Me, Child Q, the 20 special children…the children at school.
J-C: Who’s [Child Q]?
Child P: Um, that’s him.
J-C: Oh! (long pause) You’re excellent!
Child P: (murmurs something)
J-C: This guy you’re talking about, the caretaker, almost all of those are in their 40s, 50s, isn’t it, caretakers.
Abraham: 40 years, mate.
J-C: And the younger brothers, how old are they? Are they in their 30s?
Child P: Mmm, no, they’re…30s, 30ish. They’re young, they’re young. They look a bit like teenagers.
Child P: That’s okay.
J-C: So when everyone is gone, then they, they close the whole school?
Child P: No … I don’t understand.
Abraham: When your Mum leaves in the morning…
Child P: Yes.
Abraham: Are there other parents who know, and teachers who know…
Child P: Yes. Yes.
Abraham: And children who know. What happens?
Child P: They make sure the coast is clear. Mum is not there. Mum’s car is not there.
Abraham: Why don’t they want your Mum to be there, why?
Child P: Because they, they won’t touch no one.
Child P: Because if they, if she doesn’t, they want her to know, they want her to be in it, but they know that if she is in it, she’s not like the kind of per – they know that she’s not the kind of person who’ll be in it, but they’re trying to get her in it.
J-C: Okay. And why don’t you tell your Mum?
Child P: Because is they keep – one is because they force us to, they tell us: If you tell them, if you tell Mum, you die, we’ll kill you, and your whole family.
Abraham: One minute, right now.
Child P: And we’ve got to sex…
Abraham: I understand what they do. All children, they don’t tell, that’s why.
J-C: Because fear is the mind killer.
Abraham: All riiiiiiight. You’ve got it, Jean-Clement. So I helped the children face their fear.
In this segment, we can hear Abe’s rapid-fire questioning, with Child P answering quickly. Some of her answers contradict what Abe and Ella will state later: for example, she says that the members of the cult are constantly trying to recruit Ella into their “club”, and that they “want her to know” about it. Ella, as we know, denies ever knowing anything about the cult, which seems odd given that if her daughter’s version is to be believed here, they were practically trying to hand her an engraved invitation to join.
It’s also notable in this section that for the first time that evening, Jean-Clement seems to be actively participating in the questioning, rather than simply humouring Abraham. One wonders whether the idea of being written into a book as an “uncomfortable” character was a prospect which did not appeal to him, and whether this jogged him into a more active role.
Child P: Mum’s taking for an hour now. Not five minutes.
Abraham: Not…yeah, five minutes she’s gonna be here. Huh?
Child P: So one hour, five minutes.
J-C: (murmurs) ‘If we tell they will kill us’…
Abraham: Yeah. They’ll kill the whole family.
Child P: Our whole family. Our grandparents, everyone we know. Everyone. Everyone who we love, everyone. Our mum. Oh, not Papa. Papa won’t kill himself.
Abraham: Do you think they will kill Uncle Hemp?
Child P: That time when they said it to me, that time they didn’t do it, we don’t know you that time. But when we told…er, when they first saw you in school, they got alerted then. They got, so they got scared. And then they…
Abraham: When they first saw me in the school they got scared? Why would they get scared of a little man like me?
J-C: Because you mean them harm?
Abraham: What? What do you mean? I didn’t know anything.
Child P: No, that time you didn’t know nothing. Did not know anything. That time we were keeping a secret.
J-C: So you and your brother, you knew.
Child P: Yes! We were doing it since we were babies!
Abraham: Everybody in the school knew. Everybody in the school knew except me…
J-C: …and Mum.
Abraham: All riiiiiight! But when I went to the school…you know us black people, we have big noses.
J-C: Is that…the whole school close for the cult?
Child P: Yes, the whole school does it….
Abraham: Not close! Open for the cult.
J-C: No, close like…
Abraham: No, open.
J-C: They look at the whole gates, they check…
Child P: Yes, yes, yes…Mr _____, Mr _____ and Papa, they walk around the school, in Hampstead, in Hampstead areas around school, they check if this, because they know what my mum’s car is, because they saw it once, because Papa was spying coming out in the car, with me and [Child Q]. He was once spying, I saw him just hiding, just like…because you know when we come out of car?
Abraham: Enough. Enough! Just answer the question.
Child P: Because he just, um, spies on Mum. He spies…
Abraham: Enough, enough! (to J-C): Ask her another question, she can chat rubbish for an hour.
J-C: But let…
Abraham: (coughs loudly) No, I let them talk. But when she starts to waffle, I know what to do. I’m not!
J-C: Yeah, okay, okay.
Abraham: She can’t help it. Don’t stare at me while you’ve got the cup in your mouth. Don’t stare at me from behind your cup.
Here we can see Abraham exercising extreme control over the narrative. When Child P begins to extemporise about her father “spying on” her mother, Abe angrily cuts her short, despite Jean-Clement’s protests. The story about her father spying is not part of the official story, and Abe clearly wants to direct exactly what the children should and should not say.
Listening carefully to this video, it’s very clear that not only is Abraham in charge of what the children say, but he believes himself to be in charge of every aspect of their lives. Whether they eat, whether they sleep, how they sit at the table, whether they speak or are silent—it’s all up to him.
He also appears to think that his authority extends to his sister—yelling at her to shut up—and his brother-in-law. Despite his claim to be just “a little man”, he seems to think his power ought to extend to all who meet him.
…To be continued.