MK Ultra was real, but it isn’t what you think

If you listen to certain conspiraloons long enough, you’re bound to run across someone who claims to be a victim of “MK Ultra” mind-control experiments.

These MK Ultra claimants will state that their parents or other adults caused them to be subjected to something called “Project Monarch”, supposedly a programme run under the larger MK Ultra project, which involved Satanic ritual abuse, and which turned them into mind-controlled sex slaves, “Illuminati assets” and so-called “super-soldiers”. (Angela Power-Disney and Cathy O’Brien, we’re looking at you.)

While the entire concept seems extremely far-fetched, a U.S. government programme called MK Ultra really did exist from the early 1950s until the mid-1970s. However, let’s state up-front that despite years of scholarly and journalistic investigation, no “Project Monarch” has ever been found to exist as part of MK Ultra.

‘Brain warfare’

The origins of MK Ultra lie in the Korean conflict, when CIA Director Allen Dulles became extremely concerned about reports that U.S. soldiers who’d been POWs in Korea were returning home spouting Communist propaganda. In a 1953 speech at Princeton University, Dulles laid out the CIA’s new priorities:

In the past few years we have become accustomed to hearing much about the battle for men’s minds–the war of ideologies….I wonder, however, whether we clearly perceive the magnitude of the problem, whether we realize how sinister the battle for men’s minds has become in Soviet hands. We might call it, in its new form, ‘brain warfare’.

This reflected and played into the general paranoia about communism which had begun to take hold in the USA. And since this alleged “brain warfare” was mysterious—was it chemical? based on hypnosis? induced through torture or some other means?—the CIA undertook to “study” it using its own and other countries’ citizens, in a top-secret project called MK Ultra. outlines the project:

MK-Ultra’s “mind control” experiments generally centered around behavior modification via electro-shock therapy, hypnosis, polygraphs, radiation, and a variety of drugs, toxins, and chemicals. These experiments relied on a range of test subjects: some who freely volunteered, some who volunteered under coercion, and some who had absolutely no idea they were involved in a sweeping defense research program. 

Experiments were performed on vulnerable populations such as developmentally delayed boys at a state institution, American soldiers, “sexual psychopaths” at a state hospital, prisoners, and unwitting mental patients.

One prisoner, a former organised crime boss named White Bulger, described being recruited for a 1957 “medical experiment”, ostensibly to discover a cure for schizophrenia:

Each week we would be locked in a secure room in the basement of the prison hospital, in an area where mental patients were housed. We went in from 9 a.m. Tuesday to 9 a.m. Wednesday. We were injected with massive doses of LSD-25.

In minutes the drug would take over, and about eight or nine men — Dr. Pfeiffer and several men in suits who were not doctors — would give us tests to see how we reacted. Eight convicts in a panic and paranoid state. Total loss of appetite. Hallucinating. The room would change shape. Hours of paranoia and feeling violent. We experienced horrible periods of living nightmares and even blood coming out of the walls. Guys turning to skeletons in front of me. I saw a camera change into the head of a dog. I felt like I was going insane.

The men in suits would be in a room and hook me up to machines, asking questions like: Did you ever kill anyone? Would you kill someone? Two men went psychotic. They had all the symptoms of schizophrenia. They had to be pried loose from under their beds, growling, barking and frothing at the mouth. They put them in a strip cell down the hall. I never saw or heard of them again. 

‘They strip you of your soul’

In 1957, the MK Ultra programme spread north from the United States to Canada. In Montreal, the Allan Memorial Institute became a centre for these highly unethical human experiments, under the hand of a Scottish-born psychiatrist, Duncan Ewen Cameron.

One patient, Velma Orlikow, checked herself into the Allan Institute, hoping to receive help for post-partum depression. Instead of improving, however, Orlikow’s condition deterioriated, and her personality underwent disturbing changes.

Her granddaughter, Sarah Anne Johnson, described her grandmother’s experience as an unwitting MK Ultra participant:

Patients were subjected to high-voltage electroshock therapy several times a day, forced into drug-induced sleeps that could last months and injected with megadoses of LSD.

Dr Cameron’s theory of “psychic driving” underpinned his experimentation on these unwitting, uninformed test subjects. His first goal was a condition he called “penetration”. Johnson described how he achieved this on patients like Orlikow:

After reducing them to a childlike state – at times stripping them of basic skills such as how to dress themselves or tie their shoes – Cameron would attempt to reprogram them by bombarding them with recorded messages for up to 16 hours at a time. First came negative messages about their inadequacies, followed by positive ones, in some cases repeated up to half a million times.

‘He couldn’t get his patients to listen to them enough so he put speakers in football helmets and locked them on their heads,’ said Johnson. ‘They were going crazy banging their heads into walls, so he then figured he could put them in a drug induced coma and play the tapes as long as he needed.’

Orlikow’s entire personality changed. Johnson said she grew up knowing her grandmother was “not like other grandmas”:

‘She had a hair trigger for nerves and anger. If someone bumped into her or if we were in a restaurant and someone spilled something on her, she would just explode. She wouldn’t hurt anybody, she would just scream and yell and it would take hours to calm her down.’

It could take Orlikow three weeks to read a newspaper, months to write a letter, and years to read a book.

Other patients’ family members described their relatives’ treatment under Dr Cameron’s care: some were put into chemically induced comas for days or weeks at a time; others were subjected to rounds of high-level electrical shock treatments. They came home nervous, anxious, unable to remember basic things, unable to make or respond to humour.

One patient’s daughter said, “What they attempt to do is erase your emotions. They strip you of your soul.”

So what about Project Monarch?

Readers will note that none of the above sounds particularly suited to producing “perfectly programmed super-soldiers” or “Illuminati assets”.

Rather, the MK Ultra programme created a cohort of psychologically and mentally damaged individuals who struggled to perform the most basic tasks, and whose families felt their loved ones had been, in some important sense, destroyed.

Project Monarch can be seen as the “made for TV” version of MK Ultra.

Rather than relying on “psychic driving”, drug-induced comas and/or psychotic states, and failed attempts to “reprogram” the patient, Project Monarch ostensibly uses “Satanic ritual abuse” to deliberately create “dissociative identity disorder”, thus turning innocent children into “slaves of Satan” who unwittingly are programmed to perform certain critical but unspecified tasks on behalf of the Illuminati, the Deep State, or whichever Evil Overlords happen to be in vogue on a given day.

Project Monarch, which is both sexier and less drearily depressing than the real MK Ultra experiments, has been seized upon by various movies and TV shows—Stranger Things, for example, is based at least partly on the myth of Project Monarch.

MK Ultra was all too real. It represents the misuse and abuse of governmental authority writ very large indeed. It proves that yes, government (and non-government) agencies can and do engage in conspiracies against their own citizens, and that they will go to great lengths to avoid taking responsibility for the lives they destroy.

But the real victims of MK Ultra and their families who must continue to live with the repercussions of the programme’s actions are not well-served by belief in mythical conspiracy theories like Project Monarch.

In fact, Project Monarch claimants, like adult SRA claimants, serve only to distract attention and resources from the real victims of what was, ultimately, a crime against citizens of ostensibly democratic nations.

pink yellow and green abstract painting

Photo by Sharon McCutcheon on

102 thoughts on “MK Ultra was real, but it isn’t what you think

  1. Excellent post, EC. The fools who make crazy YT comments about celebrities being “MK Ultra programmed” (lol) and “Project Monarch” don’t even know what they are talking about.

    This post will be a good link to leave them so they can educate themselves on it.

    Liked by 4 people

      • Some will, I hope. I am sure that the silent majority of CSA victims/survivors will agree that all of the glory hunting faux victims or imposter victims who tell their tall tales are more than a nuisance but are causing harm in many ways.
        As for the professionals who have helped to create this phenomenom………Shame on them, all.
        Excellent post, EC. And the comments are very informative, thankyou everyone.

        Liked by 1 person

  2. I can understand the (mostly US based) paranoia about the ‘reds under every bed’, but I still can’t understand the mindset of the ‘doctors’ who did such unethical things to the patients, some of which were- as you said- not even aware they were being experimented on!

    Forget about the hippocratic oath, these ‘doctors’ appear to be complete psychopaths, in need of major treatment themselves!

    Liked by 3 people

  3. Thanks, EC. Excellent write-up and a fascinating – and sadly disturbing – insight into what happened to these poor people. And shame on the medical staff and other government employees who failed miserably in their duty of care.

    If it’s not a stupid question, were these patients forced to participate in these experiments or were they duped into agreeing to take part without realising what they were letting themselves in for?

    Liked by 2 people

    • I believe that some, such as the soldiers and prisoners, volunteered, but were not told the exact nature of what they would be experiencing. Others, like the patients at the Allan Institute, went in completely unwittingly, believing they would be treated for their presenting problems (depression, anxiety, etc.), but were used as uninformed human guinea pigs instead.

      Liked by 2 people

  4. Thanks, EC. Good to know that the real MK Ultra bears no resemblance to how Angela, Cathi, T Casey Brennan etc. describe it and that the experiences of the victims and the way it’s affected them are nothing like what Angie et al claim. Shame on you, Angela, for milking real people’s traumatic experiences for your own fame and fortune. How’s that working out for you, by the way?

    Liked by 4 people

  5. Excellent post EC & written with empathy & respect to the people & their families in their suffering.

    To think that APD, etc. have been trying to milk this with all their might is just a disgrace.

    Well said WHP.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. Great piece EC

    There is a lot of material to cover regarding MK Ultra and other unethical and illegal human experiments and the historical backstory to them.

    One of the most notorious MK Ultra experiments was called Operation Midnight Climax and involved the CIA renting a premises and using it as a brothel. The sex workers inside covertly drugged the customers while agents observed them via a 2 way mirror. Presumably the shame and embarrassment of visiting a brothel would mean that the customers would not feel able to report their experiences to the police or anyone else.

    Interesting article with some primary source documents here

    also see

    Another issue that is extremely relevant to modern witch hunts and false accusations of SRA is that MK Ultra employed hundreds of mental health professionals who used and abused patients in their experiments.

    You can watch an interview with one of them and some real MK Ultra victims in this documentary

    Regular posters here will understand that there are many quacks and dubious psychologists, psychiatrists and psychotherapists operating with apparent impunity in the UK (and in fact internationally) causing immense harm to vulnerable patients and generating an ocean of false memories and thus also false accusations of incest, historic CSA and SRA.

    The really ironic thing, or so it seems to me, is that the very MH professionals (and I use the word “professionals” loosely) who claim to have evidence of SRA and historic CSA by paedophile elites are themselves using unethical, immoral and possibly illegal methods of generating false memories and are in fact engaging in social engineering through their nefarious practices.

    The very obvious links here, should anyone here not be familiar with this already, are the video of Dr Kevin Felstead’s Ted talk about the abuses Valerie Sinason et al inflicted on his sister Carol before her mysterious and unexplained death.

    and a link to the Felstead family’s blog – reading it in full takes some time but the blog has a wealth of highly incriminating evidence and is definitely worth reading.

    The horrific abuses against Carol Felstead and her family by a cabal of properly trained and accredited doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists etc. makes for astonishing reading. One of the main perpetrators a Dr Fleur Fisher, was, at the time of her abuses against Carol, the Head of Ethics of the British Medical Association. Fisher stole Carol’s car, emptied her home of her possessions and attempted to have Carol cremated without her family’s knowledge. The Justice for Carol blog includes an audio recording of Fisher phoning Carol’s insurance company, repeatedly breaching Carol’s confidentiality, and persuading the insurance company to place the excess from Carol’s insurance (>£300) into her own bank account. She also claimed, completely falsely, to be Carol’s next of kin.

    The Felstead family continue to struggle to this day to discover what happened to their beloved sister and daughter Carol. One of the most horrifying aspect of the Carol Felstead case is that it is the visible tip of the iceberg. Many of the MH professionals who abused Carol are still practicing today and still seeing vulnerable patients and, if my experience is anything to go by, still abusing people and causing immense damage to falsely accused families and individuals.

    One has to wonder WTF is going on when professionals who are meant to care for and protect the vulnerable are in fact abusing them and quite possibly experimenting on them. The details of the procedures carried out on Carol are for her family to tell, the narrative belongs to them, but as someone with extensive personal experience of the cabal of sinister MH professionals who abused Carol I think it is quite possible, highly likely in fact, that at least some of them are conducting unethical experiments upon vulnerable populations. For the record I do not trust intelligence services from any nation or territory and I think that these kinds of abuses are shockingly widespread internationally.

    It is standard practice for cult leaders and terrorist groups to expose their followers to a process of grooming in which altered states are induced and false memories can be generated, for example practices including but not limited to: isolation from friends and family, (often covert) administration psychoactive drugs, sleep deprivation, low protein / low calorie diets / water fasts, long periods of repetitive chanting / hyperventilating, gruelling physical exercise, the adoption of prolonged “stress postures” (often disguised as yoga contests or competitions) “purging” the body via emetics and enemas, and so on.

    Cult leaders have at their disposal large populations of vulnerable adults upon whom they can conduct all kinds of unethical experiments with relative impunity. One very powerful example was the recently exposed experiments of Dr Brandon Porter of NXIVM who experimented upon unwilling young women, wiring them up to brain scans and then showing them films and photographs of real violent abuses, including horrific footage Mexican cartels decapitating and dismembering women. The material I have seen re this story left me feeling somewhat traumatised so rather than link to it I will suggest that people search for it themselves if they are feeling sufficiently resilient – to be clear I saw stills from a movie showing a group of women being held against their will and then a woman in the first stages of being decapitated with the gory buts pixilated. Still extremely distressing to see.

    One of the things that I have been researching and will be writing about are the historic and current links between mental health professionals and sinister cults. The so called “Human Potential Movement” is definitely something that readers here should be interested in as it is a place where many new age (and often Scientology / EST and Rajneeshee influenced) models of psychotherapy were developed including LGATs and body psychotherapies.

    also, re MK Ultra see CIA primary sources here:

    Liked by 2 people

    • Because it is easy to miss this link on the Justice for Carol blog, here is the link to the audio recording of Dr Fleur Fisher’s phone call to Carol’s car insurance company claiming to be Carol Felstead’s next of kin, (fraudulently), claiming that Carol’s family was abusive (proven to be untrue), extending Carol’s car insurance to cover her driving Carol’s car for 3 days, and attempting to have the excess money sent to her as there are a lot of expenses for the funeral. The call operator says that as Carol paid by Visa the money will have to be refunded to the Visa account.

      [audio src="" /]

      This is a really important piece of evidence and speaks volumes about the unethical behaviour of De Fisher.

      The Justice for Carol blog details a long list of fraudulent claims and ethical breaches made my Fleur Fisher in the phone call. I would strongly suggest that readers here read them all as they are very damning and indicative of criminal activity on Fleur Fisher’s part.

      Liked by 2 people

      • I suspect this may be a case of ‘many a true word spoken in jest’. I can’t see how he’d be picking up ice in the literal sense and in fact can’t see how it could mean anything other than crystal meth. Unless ‘ice’ is slang for something else I’m not aware of…?


  7. My Satanist colleague Dr Michael Aquino is associated with projects like MK Ultra, he was involved in military intelligence, and evolved the failed techniques of the CIA into other directions, he goes into the ideas behind this in his three recent books including Mind War. He posts occasionally on the600Club for Satanists, and I have exchanged posts with him in various debates. The following short video gives his comments on MK Ultra:

    I respect Aquino but have reservations about some of his ideas proposed in his books.


    • What a load of codswallop ! Melanie Shaw was disgusted herself, when Belinda McKenzie turned up at the protest held outside the prison, as she stated in the video she made……… I did PM her around the time she made that, but she told me to fck off, because she was convinced that Brian Gerrish was her hero and also stated categorically that he was totally against the Hampstead hoax, (which at that time, he appeared to be, I thought that he was hiding his involvement from her, because he was gaining credibility with others, via her), she insisted that I take Brian Gerrish off my blacklist, which I refused to do, so we had no further contact……. not that I am a GOVERNMENT troll, either, but like others here, according to Angela Power Disney, I am as well as all other false accusations and slurs that she has levelled at me……………. Not long after her video, where she told Angela in no uncertain terms to leave her alone, she made a video where she was celebrating her childs’ birthday in the contact centre and looked as though she was doing well, I have wondered what happened next and whether she was pushed over the edge by the people that she still believed were helping her……… but I have no real idea of what happened, because any news of her plight has come filtered through UK Column hosts, mainly Brian Gerrish……….. who in my opinion, had groomed her….. I don’t watch much of their stuff, so am not sure at all how things really happened regarding her. I do though, feel sure that she was used and misused by him/them. Just my opinion and thoughts. I have not borne her any ill will and unlike Angie, respected her wishes and left her alone.

      Liked by 4 people

    • Did Angela miss Brian Harveys’ video when he categorically dissassociated himself from her assertions about MKUltra and like Melanie, told her to basically fck off and not draw him into her rubbish ? !!! She has no respect for anyone and will decide what has happened to them and describe them to suit her own agenda !!!! Deplorable and damaging ! Disgusting Disney Drama Queen !

      Liked by 2 people

  8. But on the plus side, “The Men Who Stare At Goats” was an MK Ultra project – and very funny that film was!

    Now I think of it further, maybe that was APD’s involvement. Unwitting subjects took LSD, were forced to stare at her off their head on hallucinogens, and freaked out at the horrific sight in front of them!

    Liked by 1 person

    • ‘The Manchurian Candidate’ was another good one.

      “The Manchurian Candidate is a 1962 American suspense thriller film about the Cold War and sleeper agents. The plot centers on the Korean War veteran Raymond Shaw…Shaw was a prisoner of war during the conflict in Korea and while being held was brainwashed by his captors. After his discharge back into civilian life, he becomes an unwitting assassin involved in an international communist conspiracy. Officials from China and the Soviet Union employ Shaw as a sleeper agent in an attempt to subvert and take over the United States government.”

      Liked by 2 people

      • The 1962 Manchurian Candidate movie is actually a fantastic, classic film, superbly acted, impressive cinematography and with a gripping plot.

        Anyone who is interested in the history of brainwashing, cults, the satanic panic and related issues should watch this film. Not because it is a documentary, it is not, but because the themes in the narrative are very relevant to Hoaxtead, MK Ultra and a myriad of conspiracy theories.

        Also, the idea of a Manchurian Candidate was something that was a great concern to governments at the time that MK Ultra was active. When troops returned from the Korean war with their personalities changed, denouncing their peers and home countries and praising communism, brainwashing / thought reform became a serious concern to the powers that be and these concerns are reflected in the film.

        One of the key elements the film explores is the controversial issue of “dissociative amnesia” – something that even SRA sceptics cannot agree about, even if we all agree that “recovered memories” are not reliable as memories of actual events.

        The film also has a theme of “triggers” running through it and goes some way to explain the conspiracy theorists’ preoccupation with such.

        The film also, at its central premise, explores issues relating to the manipulation of vulnerable individuals (traumatised soldiers) via hypnosis, drugs and other methods for sinister political ends and also other themes such as social engineering and the manipulation of elections.

        The remake is also quite interesting and includes a plot device involving a nano-chip type thingy inserted into the brain by which means the Manchurian candidate is compelled to obey sinister forces. This plot device is interesting to me as a) it is a not uncommon feature of psychotic, paranoid delusions and b) it has featured in various recent conspiracy theories.

        Liked by 2 people

        • And this is very interesting

          Russian state TV service RT interviewing none other than the notorious quack and SRA promoter Dr Colin Ross and treating him as if he was a credible source:


          Liked by 2 people

          • Yes, that is the same Dr Colin Ross who believes that he has created a device that controls invisible eye beams that he believes he can shoot out of his eyes.

            Of more concern to me is how to control the bullshit that emanates from his arse.

            This quack is right down there with Valerie Sinason, Ellen Lacter, Rachel Thomas, et al at the bottom of the barrel of insane conspiraloonery and SRA promotion.

            He is also a highly abusive, unethical quack as described in this testimony from one of his victims


            I have serious concerns about RT promoting fake news and conspiracy theories, but to be fair to them, the BBC and other UK TV channels also are not without fault.

            Liked by 3 people

  9. How to put a baby to sleep using mind control techniques i.e. hypnosis.

    The technique is simple. The human brain is like a computer in that for most of the actions of life the human being follows learned mini programs or scripts that are done automatically without thought such as shaking the hand of another person. If the script is interrupted half-way before completion, the brain suffers a temporary freeze, and I can then place a command in like “sleep”, which the brain then will carry out. This is one of the main techniques of Derren Brown. The impact of the technique varies from individual to individual.

    Liked by 2 people

    • A personal observation, some big dogs when they unexpectedly bark at a certain angle, have been able to stun me for less than a second with the sound. I come back to my senses fast, but it is a weird thing to be paralyzed by sound for a moment. Dolphins, dogs and tigers can use sound to stun prey or a predator.

      All these are types of action that can produce controlling impacts on the brain of a target, and nature is very good at this, including cats that can manipulate your care-giving instinct.

      Liked by 1 person

    • I find that video more than a little disturbing SV
      Even if the man is skilled in hypnosis it is unethical to hypnotise someone without their consent and the lack of ethics is even more relevant in the case of a baby – also there are boundary issues re using any therapeutic intervention with ones own children.
      The man in the video is promoting a failed multi-level marketing / pyramid selling scheme called Wake Up Now

      I am not so much debating your point about hypnosis (which I will reflect upon) as feeling creeped out by the activities of the man in the video you shared and in his other videos

      Liked by 1 person

        • Wow, thanks for posting Jake, I missed that. It is extremely disturbing.

          You can see that the baby is distressed by his dad’s finger in the video, he repeatedly cries, tries to bat the finger away and moves his head away and his dad repeatedly waves his finger in the baby’s face regardless, completely ignoring the baby’s evident distress.

          I’m wondering whether the baby has learned that the only way to get Daddy to stop staring at him and invading his space with the scary finger is to pretend to be asleep?

          Also, at the end when the kid appears to fall asleep he has just put food in his mouth, which I would have thought would present a risk of choking in a small child like that.

          Looks like this man has his own little human experimentation thing going on with his own baby – quite prescient given the subject of today’s serving of Hoaxtead on MK Ultra.

          Scary that he’s had 6 years to work on that child through the most delicate, formative years of his life. The video was posted in 2012. Poor little thing being born to a father involved in a MLM scam who thinks that it’s fun to experiment with his child’s mind. You can hear a female voice laughing briefly so it’s likely that the mother is complicit in these experiments. Poor kid.

          Liked by 1 person

      • Hypnosis is a great tool if not abused as it was in the previous video. The video of this father using hypnosis with his child is a positive use of the tool:


  10. Two blasts from the past have been ranting on Stropman’s slime video – Asher ‘Windi Greens’ Arendale and Plymouth Fury:

    Liked by 1 person

  11. The story of how “MKultra” became a Worship Word among Troothers (stripped of its grounding of real-world historical events, replaced with an unspoken backstory) would be enough for another entire column.

    Though the tale is much the same as the SRA “Michelle Remembers” saga… one crazy person wrote a book full of “I-was-a-CIA-programmed-assassin” recovered-memory fantasies, and other people recycled its narrative for their own self-important fabulations.

    I would say more but my brain implant won’t let me.

    Liked by 2 people

    • “Operation Paperclip” is woven into modern re-tellings of the belief system, to prop it up with extra Worship Word credibility, but that is a recent accretion… relying on the believers having only no feckin idea what Operation Paperclip was about (except that it involved Nazi Flying Saucers and Moonbase Technology).

      Liked by 1 person

    • Not one of these loonies actually says why she is in jail. She couldn’t have just been jailed without a court case, She must have been charged with something. I have no idea what her history is apart from an arson charge but these fanatics never actually state details, just rabbit on about their conspiracy nonsense,

      I see the Mail is beating up the Max Spiers’ case again and I’m surprised they aren’t hyperventilating about that at the moment as they seen enthralled by the gutter tabloids and jump when ordered to. But reading the article carefully it’s obvious the poor man’s mother is providing the information and from past history, she seems to have brought into the whole conspiracy angle. Can’t blame her as grief can affect people badly but The Mob seize on these things like carnivorous beasts.

      Liked by 3 people

      • I was watching Angies first known appearance at an anti child abuse rally 2015, she briefly mentioned Max and couldn’t pronounce his name, correctly yet later claimed to have had close contacts with him … , If you search it on YouTube she appears around the 49mins mark.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Her previous arson conviction was the result of two arson attacks as I recall, the second of which was an attempt to burn down a house that had a family of four, including two children, sleeping inside. Still, it’s all about silencing whistleblowers, eh troofers?

        Liked by 2 people

      • Yes GoS. The people even reading the posts about the court case & watching the videos during & after, on hearing that she was incoherent in court, (she thought she was a prison officer & said she wouldn’t have sex with the judge & continued in that vein), they are all saying, “she was drugged”, “they have broken her”, even though her friend told Charles Spencer that she was like that before she went into prison, but of course they are not listening & skipping that bit. 😶

        I do feel sorry for anyone in their grief trying to make sense of a loved one’s death. Max Spiers’ inquest should hopefully hold the answers she seeks & give her some peace at last.


Comments are closed.