Sabine McNeill on trial: Day 18

/ 14/12/2018

This afternoon Sabine McNeill was found guilty on four charges of stalking parents whose children were named by Ella Draper in 2014 as belonging to a “Satanic death cult” based in several schools and a church in Hampstead, North London.

In addition, she was found guilty of six of 17 charges of breaching a restraining order which was put in place by HHJ Worsley following the collapse of Sabine and Neelu’s trial for witness intimidation in July 2016. 

After the jury foreperson read out the verdicts, HHJ Sally Cahill said that she would need to take stock; she postponed sentencing to next week. 

In response to a question from Judge Cahill about whether the Crown would be amending the existing restraining order, Miranda Moore QC said that she and Philip Stott had written a Criminal Behaviour Order (CBO) for Judge Cahill’s consideration. 

According to the CPS website, 

The CBO is available on conviction for any criminal offence in any criminal court. The order is aimed at tackling the most serious and persistent offenders where their behaviour has brought them before a criminal court.

CBOs include prohibitions to stop the anti-social behaviour, and may also include requirements to address the underlying causes of the offender’s behaviour.

Sabine was taken back to Bronzefield Prison to await sentencing. 

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116 thoughts on “Sabine McNeill on trial: Day 18”

  2. Crikey! Policing and Crime Act 2017 doubled the maximum sentence for stalking to 10 years!

    Any idea the date of the 4 stalking offences Sabine was found guilty of? The legislation is explicit that the penalty is not retrospective so she may only face a maximum of 5 years.

    Liked by 2 people

    • It seems bizarre, and I still don’t think it’s possible to both believe in the hoax and try to make the :”deal” she did with with Mrs Justice Pauffley. If she truly thought all those children were being tortured and dying, would she really have been willing to trade custody of two children for the lives of 20?

      Like

  4. Thank you for all your excellent reports EC & taking so much time out of your life to do, the same to your companions also.

    I must say I will take no pleasure in a 74 year old pensioner being in prison, at present I mean. What sentence she gets I won’t speculate upon because I would be wrong anyway & would not like to feel as if I would be revelling with glee.

    But…….this court case had to be heard, better late than never I guess. Although it would have saved all the families involved if it had been in court when it first started off & the runaway mother and her boyfriend had been to court with justice being served then.

    It is my fervent hope that they will be called to justice someday along with the others that are perpetuating the hoax, Angela Power Disney being the main perpetrator talking about it to feckin’ idiots in the States who have no idea of what it is about & the one feckin’ idiot selling merchandise on the back of it. My God, I could fill this post with swear words about the two of them, but I won’t, they are being said in my head, that’s enough.

    Hopefully the Irish authorities have been watching & waiting for the outcome of this case & will now move for justice for all the people involved.

    To all the families, I wish you joy & happiness & to be able to live your lives from now on without fear.

    Long post, sorry, emotions are high.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Yes Lucca!

      I’m so glad the witnesses have been vindicated at long last and I wish them all the very best.

      Thank heavens for that jury….I was a little worried that the defense’s closing statements might sway them/give them cause to doubt the defendant’s guilt.

      All of you, everyone concerned in fighting back for so long…..you are the best people ever. I haven’t had enough wine to be properly effusive but my goodness, my admiration for each and every one of you knows no bounds.

      Liked by 1 person

      • 🍷🍷🍷 There’s a few to keep you going! 😂 The defense as well as the prosecution were excellent, it’s amazing how they word things isn’t it!

        Liked by 1 person

        • Absolutely Lucca! Janey Macs… I was loving the immense intelligence of them both. I’m extremely interested in Miranda Moore actually, I did a little background research and learned she’s an expert on cybercrime. I’d love to know which other cases of note she’s been involved in and her success rate etc.

          And to think…if it weren’t for El Coyote we’d be clueless.

          Liked by 2 people

    • Just to make it perfectly clear for any new readers- it wasn’t both parents, it was only one and her then partner accusing the other parent
      😉

      Liked by 3 people

        • No worries, its just I have seen ‘certain parties’ latch onto statements like that before and use it as an ‘admission’

          It’s good to see that indeed the jury weren’t swayed by her little act (and imho it was an act) All they needed was to look at the tone of her posts, she knew damn well that what she was peddling on her blogs was inaccurate, yet continued to do it
          Now I’m just waiting for ‘the hammer to fall’ on a certain other party mentioned in her trial, the one that EC did her ‘job’ so much better than she ever did….
          (taps foot impatiently)

          Liked by 2 people

          • You’re right Steved. Yes there are some who would use that as you say.

            EC or Scarlett, would one of you please edit my post & take out ‘parents’ and replace it with, ‘mother & stepfather’s or ‘Abe Christie & Ella Draper’, whichever makes it clearer.

            Yes, let’s hope a certain someone sees that they are not above the law.

            Liked by 2 people

    • I hope that the Irish authorities have been watching closely and will guide themselves accordingly. I also agree that I don’t wish anyone any ill. However, I do very much want to see justice done. I think that had the police who were originally in charge of this case reacted more quickly and decisively to the complaints of the parents at the time, the hoax wouldn’t have been allowed to progress as far as it did.

      Liked by 2 people

  5. Whatever the eventual sentencing outcome,this trial has sent an unequivocal message to vainglorious vigilante crusaders(on or offline)that destroying innocent lives without so much as a single shred of evidence will NOT be tolerated and those partaking in such activities can expect to be held to account.

    Reportage of the very highest order.Thankyou.

    Liked by 4 people

  6. Pingback: Guilty – Spin vs Truth

  7. I join others in congratulating you ec. Fantastic to shine a light on these people and their behaviour. Lets hope it causes a few others to pause! Probably not.

    I have been reading your posts avidedly like i suspect many other people do without joining in – mainly because way too many witty comments to enjoy that cover everything- so thanks too all the regulars.

    Liked by 5 people

  9. Doesn’t matter what age anyone is, if they know what they are doing and they know it’s bullshit may the big door with bars on it slam behind them. May be now all this Hoax stuff can now come to an end and people can get on with their lives and get the proper help they need.

    Liked by 5 people

  10. That is excellent news for the parents and children caught up in Ella and Abe’s web of lies. Not such good news for Sabine, and I hope it’s a wake-up call to Belinda, Neelu, APD and the rest of the useful idiots.

    My daughter is a social worker in a county outside of London, but today she had to give evidence at a family court hearing in the Royal Courts of Justice in London (as one of the people involved in the case is a high-risk offender, they moved the hearing away from her county for security of others involved in the case). I sent her the link to this blog so she had some light (!) reading to occupy the inevitable waiting time. She was gobsmacked!

    Liked by 3 people

  12. Great quote from Tom Dumb ‘I’m not a great reader like I used to be. I used to read…oh at least a book a month….’

    That says it all doesn’t it.

    Liked by 2 people

  13. And so it ends… but there is still much to be said from those who have been behind the scenes, and I have been holding off until the entire case was heard, so as not to infringe on any reporting restrictions, even accidentally, as this is such an important case. As a network, all we ever wanted was for an investigation and hearing, in order that we might make sense of all the confusion. I have noticed some comments about why I have been quiet, please don’t mistake that for absence, I have been working away behind the scenes with several other matters which all tie into Hoaxstead. I want to say a big thank you to Karen Irving for her fantastic reporting on this case…. it was so professional, that even Belinda Mc Kenzie has come out in praise.
    I too take no joy in seeing a 74 year old woman going to jail, but after learning some of the details of this trial, I can only say that Sabine had done this to herself. Several key facts stood out for me, one of which was that Sabine did not have Ella Draper’s permission to publish the material, and in fact, there is an email from Ella asking Sabine to return all material about her kids. Irrespective of how vile Abe and Ella may be for what they have done, nobody has any right to publish details about a minor without the parents consent, and at any time if consent for such publication is given by parent, and then withdrawn, that needs to be honoured too. Nobody has the right to publish anything out about anybody else’s children (minors), without the consent of the parents, end of story… Running a media network for as long as I have, this is something that I am very well aware of. We have several shows dedicated to children, and featuring children, and we always ensure we have parental consent before publishing or broadcasting with minors.

    Now that the trial is over, I will be speaking to Flo Destroyer this Sunday at 7:30pm GMT, to fill in the gaps and provide additional information to this story. Lots been going on and it all ties together.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I hope you (and others) have learned something from this debacle. You have been so desperate to prove your theories of SRA or ritual abuse, rape, torture, murder and cannibalism that you have given a voice to many evil scamming liars. You want to be taken serious as media then you should act like a serious media organisation. You gave that conman Kevin annett more space than just about anyone, even Alex Jones caught on to him after one interview. I don’t want to see Sabine rot in jail but what she did was awful, any one of us could have been one of the “20 special families” it was literally plucked from a hat. Angie is the real evil bitch though, she should be where Sabine is.

      Liked by 3 people

      • Yes I have learned a good lesson from this, but you actually have no idea just how my role in this has played out behind the scenes, but you shall all know soon enough. With regards to your comments “You have been so desperate to prove your theories of SRA or ritual abuse, rape, torture, murder and cannibalism…” Nope, not true. You opinion here is based on others, not my wants or desires. I have never been desperate to prove anything beyond what evidence presented. I deal with facts and logic, and at times my willingness to help people has been used and abused, and I have come out looking the worst for having helped people who just did not deserve my kindness or efforts. You are right about giving that conman Kevin Annett space… I was not the only one, but I was naive and trusting. I had no idea at that time that people could be so vile and use the story of native children tortured in schools, to fund his lavish lifestyle. I just had no idea people could be so depraved, but yes, I have learned much in my time in media. We have worked with some pretty rotten people over the years, this I admit, but by far the person I am most ashamed to have ever worked with, is Angela Power Disney. That woman is sick. She has made false claims that my family are satanists, having written such in articles, even claiming she has evidence, but alas, we have seen nothing of the evidence she has. When I speak to Flo, there is more information about some of what went on and how they (Angie, Sabine, Belinda0 tried to trick me into taking false witness statements. Dont worry, the dirt all comes out now!

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        • Oh come on Mel. You said some daft things. I haven’t forgotten the interview with Alfred Webre which was factually inaccurate and just plain old batshit crazy conspiracy theory. As I recall you said you were relying on your ‘gut feelings’ about Hampstead, which isn’t anything to do with facts and logic and, as you know, isn’t the best way to approach an alleged crime.

          But…..we’ve all said daft things (even me) and so long as we learn from it and move on there’s hope. You won’t get any more cheek from me if you do that. We don’t have to agree on everything but if we can agree that publishing the names and personal details of innocent people and children in child abuse cases is wrong then that’s a start.

          Will look forward to listening on Sunday night.

          Liked by 1 person

      • Agree with that.

        The two main children were protected by law. That’s the point and people who choose to ignore the law must face the consequences.

        Liked by 1 person

    • You hitched your star to the wrong wagon Mel. Go back and watch your interviews on Youtube (of course they’re still up) where you allow your own hurt feelings about the stand-offish media folk of Hampstead to develop into something else, something poisonous and wrong. You picked the wrong side. Tough luck.

      Liked by 1 person

      • My star aint hitched to anybody, it never has been and never will be. I make my own destiny. I am simply a person, one of many who took an interest in this story, and I reserve the right to follow or comment on any story or media item that my peek my interest. Having lived in Hampstead for 5 years when I lived in London, this story caught my attention. I backed off shortly after I interviewed Sabine, as Belinda Mc Kenzie had told Sabine not to do any more media with me, and thus, I did not want to help people who clearly did not want my help. I was never part of their team.
        My feelings were never hurt by any stand offish media folk, and I am not sure what you mean here. Please be specific as to whom you are referencing, as this this is a sweeping statement that is simply untrue to my mind, but perhaps I am missing something here. I am too emotionally mature to get upset with online semantics. As for picking a side, I never picked a side at any point. I was always open to a full and proper investigation and hearing before definatively making up my mind as to what I believed. My only concern was only ever about the kids, and one thing is for sure, those kids were abused… it is just the details of that abuse (who and how) which were unclear or in question.

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        • I know what Sue means. You did an interview with that other idiot Alf Weber in which you painted a very dark picture of the residents of Hampstead and how cultish they were and how you were not surprised that they were killing babies on an industrial scale akin to some third world dictatorship because they didn’t let you join their little cliques. The fact you were fooled so easily by a story thats beyond absurd to the point that only the mentally ill and/or religious fanatics believe it means you need to take a good look at yourself. You wanted it to be true, you all did, you were positively salivating over it, all your demented dreams come true. What will you do the next time some nut uses their kids like this? it will happen again its only a matter of time and if Christie had got those kids to Morocco who knows what would’ve happened? the fact they quickly gravitated to you and Alf isn’t at all surprising.

          Liked by 2 people

          • Nobody gravitated towards me… In fact, if you have read my previous statement, Belinda and co did not want my involvement. I was never a part of their team. When I offered my assistance it was rejected. As for Alfred Webre, I have know Alfred for over a decade, and worked with him plenty in the past, but I wont be doing so again, as much has changed since, and when I do my interview with Flo, there is much to be revealed there too, tying into several other hoaxes too. Please check my FB page, Alfred and I are no longer friends, as he done something very naughty and highly illegal, and we caught him out on it… and I have this all recorded, complete with Alfred’s most ungracious rant when I called him out on several things. This too will be released in due course, once I have put the final pieces of this puzzle out there for all to take in. I for one am regretful for ever having worked with Alfred Webre on the Hampstead interview, and on all the other media pieces I have done with him. Working in media and working with people in media gives one plenty insight into people. There is no way I know the nature and character of everybody before I work with them. Nothing beats experience, and unfortunately, I have had to personally experience just how rotten some people are in media. I am a kind trusting person. My weaknesses are merely excesses of my strengths. I have been to kind and trusted too many of the wrong people. I know that now. This is my mistake to learn from and I have. It is not for you or anybody else to tell me off, not even you Karne. I have suffered plenty due to this case, including loosing my home. Nothing you say here, no anger you project at me at any point going forward, will even touch sides in comparison to what I have already endured as a result of this case. As for your comments: “you wanted it to be true, you all did, you were positively salivating over it, all your demented dreams come true. What will you do the next time some nut uses their kids like this?” That is emotive drivel! I mean, did you ever actually see me salivating? Please provide evidence. This is the same kind of emotion driven hatred that drove people away from the Hoaxstead Research camp and into the Hoax camp. I have nave never had “demented dreams” of the nature you describe. You dont even know me…. get a grip dude. These are false allegations. As for your question “What will you do the next time some nut uses their kids like this? ” Believe it or not, this happens every day, and there are many cases I am aware of and have dealt with where “nuts use their kids” in sick war games with ex spouses. Anybody doubting this, please check out the shows we did called HELL IS FOR CHILDREN hosted by Geerte Frenken. Yes dear friends, there is more to the world than just this Hoaxstead story. Hopefully some of you sad haters can actually get on with your lives now instead of attacking people out of anger. Move on! If I had done anything criminal, I would be under investigation. Having personally co operated with the investigating officer Steve Martin, and having spoken to him personally, I am well aware that there is no line of enquiry or charges against me, as I did not do anything as stupid as to publish lists and names, nor did I make any threats to the folks of Hampstead. All I did was take an interest in the story, like the millions of other people across the world. As for your comments “it will happen again its only a matter of time and if Christie had got those kids to Morocco who knows what would’ve happened?” I take it that this is a rhetorical question, as I do not have a crystal ball, so I cant tell what would have / could have happened. Nor am I willing to speculate without solid evidence. Your fear based projections may be true or they may come true, but why project this angry and emotive statement at me? There is nothing I can do to stop this from happening as I dont even live in the same country as any of the folks involved, and to be honest, I no longer care. Sabine’s trial is over. The facts have been examined by a court. I personally was very satisfied that this was a fair hearing, and at the end of the day, all I really wanted, was a full investigation, and for the findings of that investigation to be heard, and it was. Now dear friends, I will disclose what info I have to Flo on Sunday, and then I move on with my life. I suggest you all do the same. There are much more beautiful things in the world to focus on. LIVE IS BEAUTIFUL!

            Liked by 2 people

        • I think you should try to turn this whole debacle into a positive for yourself. No point in beating yourself up over the matter and to come on what has been an antagonistic forum in the past is pretty impressive.

          You have a voice aimed at the so-called alternative truther crowd. You can use it.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Thank you Sam. It is really refreshing to get a positive response on this forum. My comments on your response, with respects; I have no intention of turning this whole debacle into a positive for myself, for to do so, would be manipulative. We have seen too much manipulation already. It is what it is. Now the facts have been laid before the world, we must learn what we can, adapt to the new information, and move on with our lives for the better. Besides I dont see this as anything negative, rather as a journey of discovery, and it has been a tough one to engage admittedly. My only desire in going onto Flo’s show on Sunday, is to disclose more information which ties into all this mess, so as to shed some light on various related matters. I am not out to capture the hearts of haters, nor am I seeking approval or popularity. I know some people will stay angry, and that hurts only them. I feel nothing. That anger is their burden, not mine.

            Like

      • I think Mel Ve should be given a fair hearing and am interested to hear what she has to say to Flo tonight. I appreciate that she can say out loud that she was wrong and that she wants to make amends. At least there is some humility about having erred. I appreciate the rage and hurt goes very deep after such trauma and that it is difficult to forgive. I hope Mel Ve continues in her attempts to resolve her part in this by letting us know what else was going on in the background around the time of her publications.

        Like

        • Thank you Mark, you shall have your chance to hear it all, and I am open to taking questions, so long as they are presented in a respectful manner. What many fail to recognise is what my real role in all this is, and has always been. Working in media means we sometimes have to wade through so much shit, and it is difficult to come out of that without shit on us (pardon the crudeness of my expression). The real tragedy is not that we have shit on us, but that people blame us for that, rather than thanking us for wading through the shit in the first place so that they did not have to do it. Rather we get judged for being covered in shit. Media is not glamorous as many may think.. I am sure Karen Irving agrees, that it is a tough job, and sometimes a thankless job. And sometimes even the best of intentions gets used against us. All I know is I do what I do in good conscience, and I don’t beat myself up over it, as I embrace life as a journey of discovery. This has been an epic journey.

          Liked by 1 person

    • One major point: not even Ella Draper has a legal or moral right to publish her children’s names and images in an abuse matter even if she believed this stuff and she has done so repeatedly and allowed Abraham Christie to without seemingly a single thought on the effects it may have upon them.

      It’s one of the oddest aspects and very strange behaviour for a mother who declares she loves her children.

      Liked by 3 people

  14. Neelu’s post:

    ” I am asking if anyone attended Court 11 today in the Southwark Crown Court in London UK to contact me privately. The problem is that although a court official told me that a verdict was reached today unless there was a public hearing and unless there was public present to make it a public hearing there is no evidence that the jury made that decision”

    She’s also asking Paul Rogers to get in touch with her by pm.

    Liked by 2 people

    • And the post has been ‘liked’ by Angie and Rupert. Bless

      (And the angry emoji is from Andy Theodoru, interestingly.)

      Liked by 2 people

      • So it seems Rupert Wilson Quaintance is incapable of showing any contrition for the debacle he caused. I can’t blame him for being angry about his own ordeal but he seems incapable of divorcing himself from the case. He is a perfect example of how arrogance ruled his head and led him into a mess that will follow him for life at this rate.
        His best course would have been to completely divorce himself from the Hampstead after being deported. Instead he seems determined to allow it to follow him for life. He’ll become very embittered at this rate and for no good reason.

        Liked by 2 people

        • Perhaps, after what Sabine said about him in Court, he wants her to get the maximum sentence. 🙂

          Like

    • Curiously common delusion that an unwelcome verdict has been made up by court staff – I dealt with a similar case (in origin but before the Internet so it went no further) where mum and new partner alleged natural father was abusing child on no evidence at all. When the magistrates made an order for father to have contact with the child mum and partner alleged that the magistrates weren’t magistrates, they were court staff in disguise.
      May be connected with paranoid delusional thinking – a huge conspiracy involving the entire establishment, or just an instinctive refusal to accept the truth.

      Liked by 2 people

  15. I am happy the unfairly vilified and traumatised people accused in this case have have had their unbelievable experiences and plight acknowledged in the form of the guilty verdicts today.

    I do not take pleasure in the incarceration of an old woman, or any human, for that fact. Actual physical prison is cruel and punishing, mainly because of the people you cannot escape from in that environment. ‘Hell is other people’ etc. But those that are falsely accused inhabit a type of mental prison that they cannot escape from until a verdict like today’s emerges to vindicate them. Of course, it is not a heal all and there will be lasting damage and costs to bear.

    To be falsely accused of something awful is a terrible thing, especially by a large number of people who outnumber you and who lack critical ability to understand the full picture.

    It is impossible to reconcile yourself to lies when you know you are innocent. A court ruling helps somewhat. So does the support and commitment of an excellent writer such as yourself, EC.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Do you not think, the falsely accused and their families have not been in some kind of prison for all these years? Do you not think, if you were a child, being exposed all over the Internet is some kind of prison? No they are not nice places, I don’t have any sympathy with any of these fruitloops that did what they did outside the church in Hampstead, stalking people. Any one who carries out this kind of hatred deserves to go to prison.

      Liked by 4 people

      • I talk about the mental prison the accused have been in.
        As for wanting others to be in prison, no, I would rather it were not necessary as they are terrible places for any person with human sensibilities. However, I agree that in this case there was no other option, and so sympathy would be misplaced. Sabine was warned over and over again and yet she kept breaching. If I had been her I would have pulled the plug on everything I had ever published and checked privacy settings, it does not take much. Sabines arrogance and complete stupidity – I do not agree with reports of her great intellect – she could not manage to understand pretty simple concepts – make prison a place of last resort, and yes, necessary. At least others will be in no doubt as to what will happen to them if they cannot grasp the difference between their fantasies and reality.

        Liked by 1 person

  16. You’re one tough cookie Karen. Brilliant writing as ever. Thank you for sticking this out. You’ve done something pretty damn amazing.

    Liked by 4 people

  17. Pingback: Sabine McNeill on trial: Day 18 – The Real Fresh Start Foundation

  18. Another extraordinary episode in this saga of hubris and folly. Congratulations and thanks to EC and the Hoaxstead crew. The measured and responsible style of this project, and the decency and warmth of your people, puts shame to the hysterical, vicious mob who created and fed the witchhunt. Well done, all of you.

    Herc off of that Quatloos

    Liked by 5 people

  19. Thank you for your fantastic daily coverage of the trial, EC.

    “Guilty on 4 charges of stalking”. I take on board what some people are saying here but I, for one, am pleased with the result, no matter Sabine’s age.

    I’m pleased with the Jury and happy for the witnesses this evening.

    Liked by 5 people

  20. Glad to hear about the criminal behaviour order which might be a way forward to put a stop to Sabines behaviour as she ‘will always believe the children’ and is irrational. She is liable to continue her campaign without this.

    I hope they ban her from ever being a mckenzie friend to anyone ever again.
    I bet her narcissism and tears or hysterical act did her no favours in court, with the jury.

    Liked by 3 people

      • As I understand it, a difference between a restraining order and a CBO is that restraining orders are only prospective—that is, they only apply to what one does after the order is applied—whereas CBOs are both prospective and retrospective, and can be used to compel people to, say, remove previously posted damaging material from the internet.

        Liked by 2 people

  21. And all because I asked for evidence that Esther Rantzen is a paedophile (and pointed out the correct spelling of ‘Savile’) 🙄

    Liked by 2 people

    • “Public sentiment began to change after Sawyer’s published promises to rescue kidnapped children that were being held in cages and pedophile dens failed to materialize. There is no known evidence to this day that Sawyer ever actually ‘rescued’ a child.”

      Ironic when you think This Mob support Donald Trump who does actually have immigrant children held in cages with one sadly passing away yesterday.

      Liked by 4 people

  23. Between you, me and the garden gate, I hear that this verdict has caused some upset north of the border.

    Liked by 4 people

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  28. “The facts have been examined by a court.”

    I have no desire to be seen to pile on, but hopefully just provide a helpful note. This trial was not to finally lay out the facts. Those facts were determined in 2015 by a judge. They were read into the record and agreed on by both the prosecution and defence. This case was purely about whether Sabine had carried out a campaign of stalking and harassment of innocent families, not whether they were innocent.

    Liked by 1 person

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