For the past several days, we’ve been doing the first full transcription of the “Jean-Clement Yaohirou audio”, which Abraham Christie’s brother-in-law recorded the night Abe, Ella, and the children returned from Morocco. During that trip, Abe and Ella had physically and mentally coerced the children to fabricate and repeat a story implicating their father, their entire school, and other Hampstead community members in a fictional “cult” which raped children, tortured and murdered babies, and ate human flesh.
In our last instalment, Abraham startled us by saying—several times—that the alleged tattoos on the “cult members” were unimportant, and could not be relied upon as evidence.
Abraham had only added the tattoo detail to the children’s story to make it more believable to a person he hoped would help publicise it: to wit, Bill Maloney. However, he didn’t want Jean-Clement looking into the issue too closely, as he was fully aware that no such tattoos existed.
In Part 5 of the transcript, Ella begins by describing the problems she had in coping with motherhood.
Ella: Now, just I wanted to come back to the question—I’m bombarding you with information—you ask me how comes I didn’t notice now. I knew something was wrong with children because the way they behave.
Ella: Because they’re very aggressive to each other, they were aggressive to me…
J-C: You knew your children were aggressive to each other.
Ella: To each other. They were fighting all the time.
Child Q: I was pulling her hair.
Ella: And badly, badly, like once, I didn’t see that, but Child P took like a picture frame and throw onto Child Q’s head. To Child Q’s. She hurt him on his head.
Child Q: Yeah. She…that was the time…there was three times…I was really scared. But she was pretending to hurt me, she was pretending to hit me, but I was really scared, but then it actually happened. Because I got really scared.
Abraham: I see, yeah. What about in Glastonbury where you pulled her by the hair? And you slapped her?
Child Q: Yeah…
Abraham: And Sebastian and I witnessed it.
Child Q: Yeah…
Abraham: And we were pretty shocked.
Child Q: And you were really shocked.
Abraham: At the level of violence in you.
Child Q: Yeah, yeah, I was really violent that time. I used to do that before too, when Child P done…
Abraham: But you don’t do that any more, now do you, thankfully?
Child Q: Sometimes I make trouble, sometimes she makes trouble. Sometimes I snatch her things off her, then she fights to me, I fight back to her.
Abraham: It doesn’t happen any more.
Child Q: Nooo…
Abraham: Does it?
Child Q: Um. N-no, not really. I never pulled her hair in the holidays, never.
Abraham: Well done. I’m very happy to hear that.
Experienced parents may be wondering: what’s so unusual about two siblings fighting? Yet Abraham and Ella both seem surprised that eight- and nine-year-old children would be physically aggressive toward one another.
Note Abraham’s insistence that “it doesn’t happen any more”. Child Q is hesitant to confirm this, but Abraham guides him toward the answer he wants, and then praises him when he answers “correctly”.
Child Q: And since I was with you…like…no, since we were…when you started to live with us, Uncle Hemp, we still done it. But then after a while when we went to Morocco, we stopped to, is that right?
Abraham: I think you stopped doing it before we went on holiday.
Ella: It was before, before.
Child Q confirms with Abraham that this is indeed the answer he wanted, but Abe and Ella tell him that the change in behaviour occurred before they went on holiday.
Child Q: You told me, warned me, you said it’s really bad.
Ella: But before that, just the whole time, they were just progressively getting worse and worse. Now. Misbehaving, in the whole kind of like, it was started from when they were like, really little, so for me it was just norm that they were like misbehaving, they were throwing tantrums all the time, they were fighting, fighting with adults. And we went even for several sessions to Tavistock Centre, they do child psychology. But they were really slow, and they were not really like that helpful, you know. Just listening, you know, uh, school, you know, so I was just constantly looking for solution, I went for parenting courses. So I thought something, I thought I was doing something wrong. And also they were misbehaving at all times, whatever I would say, they would say opposite. Apparently, what they told me that he was teaching them like to, um, undermine everything I’m saying.
While Ella would later claim that it was RD who had to go to the Tavistock Centre to deal with aggression issues, here she admits that she was sent there to deal with her own inadequacy as a parent. She describes her children as constantly misbehaving and “undermining” her, apparently unaware that as a parent, her job was to provide safe limits to help her children learn to contain their aggression.
Child Q: To be aggressive. And Child P is the boss of me. If I was—
Ella: And just…
Child Q: —bigger than her, I would be the boss of her.
Ella: Totally creating troubles. Constantly creating troubles. [Child Q continues to talk over her.] I didn’t really even have a moment, like to look at it, or to put all this kind of whatever I’ve seen, together. And I never been across children who, like…I…I dunno the subject. I never known children who’ve been abused, I know one adult who has been abused, he kind of made public, he’s kind of big figure, but then um…this is it. I’ve heard there are paedophile somewhere out there, but I have no idea, you know, where it came from or how it’s happening. Or maybe it’s happening very underground, very secretly. And, um, so I had no idea about this, you know. Like, if I knew something like that I probably would spot it right away.
J-C: So you felt this is like, child-like behaviour.
Interestingly, Ella claims here that she knows “one adult who has been abused, he kind of made it public, he’s kind of big figure”…we wonder who she could be referring to?
Ella: Yeah, it was like, um…
[they all talk over one another]
Ella: …children, children…
Child Q: You remember that time? Cos Mum, whenever she went into, whenever she meditated, me and Child Q straight away touched each other.
Ella: I mean I was constantly running around. I, uh, single Mum, I was looking, I was looking after them and making food, you know this …
Child Q: And Galya wasn’t clever, our touching, we hid away from her, in a park we, um, said we would go …
J-C: Who’s that?
Child Q: Galya. Galya, my nanny.
J-C: Oh, your nanny.
Ella: No, no, but she’s…
Child Q: Yes. She, um, she, she hardly spotted us touching. ‘Cause when we went to the park, um, um, we go, um “Moi je peu rouler?” … that means ‘Can we go and have a little walk? Uh, myself, and then, um, and also we sometimes run and we like find sticks, and that time, when we run and she’s at the back of us, um, we touch each other that time. So she hardly ever spot us.
Child Q’s description makes us wonder whether he really understands what the adults mean by “touching one another”: he seems to think its an activity which can be done while running in the park ahead of their nanny.
Given that the psychiatrist who examined them during the police investigation stated that neither child had any understanding of the facts of life, it seems quite possible that Child Q is literally thinking about reaching out a hand a putting it on his sister’s arm or shoulder, for example.
Ella: At some point, I did notice they were doing something. Um, once I caught them in the bathroom.
Child Q: You caught, you caught us touching, remember?
Ella: Once I came in the, like in the second bathroom in the old flat, and, um, I saw this, I didn’t see, but I thought when I came in they were doing something. Now what happened then, later, like a couple of days later, I look my phone, in my photographs, and Child Q was filming Child P without her underpants. Really short, like maybe under one minute. And so I had a word with them, looks like they became very skillful at hiding it from me. And, you know, like finding their ways to do that. Or like distracting me, saying that, you know, I’m hungry so I’ll prepare food, they go do it. And that was like kind of one of their tricks. And they developed like signs between them. OK, whenever I’m hungry, or I need to go to the toilet, let’s do that, let’s do that.
Abraham: Let’s go and touch each other. Let’s go and oh, they’d go like this, Mum’s talking, she’s talking, they wouldn’t say a word, she’d go like…
Ella: Behind my back.
Given that Ella says she never actually witnessed any of this activity, we wonder how much of this actually happened. It seems far more like something which she and Abe “brainstormed” during the trip to Morocco.
Similarly, the alleged sign language between the children sounds very much ike an adult fantasy:
Abraham: And they’d go and do sex, maybe go and do sex, or touch each other. Or she’d go like this…
Child Q: Mum, remember when you spot us …?
Abraham: Excuse me.
Child Q: Yes.
Abraham: Or she’d go like this … and then that’s another sign. What does that mean?
Child P: That means like, say that means: Mum’s not looking, she’s away, we can touch each other.
Abraham: And what is this one? What this one means? Stick out your bum?
Child P: That means: Go to the toilet.
Abraham: Stick out the bum twice?
Child Q: And then, twice …
Abraham: And what does this one mean?
Child Q: That one means, that one means: Be careful of Mum. That one means, that one means: Be careful of Mum. The sticking out the bum TWICE means like, like: Go to the toilet and do it. Or just once, that means … put, put, uh, um, because Papa, Papa learned…
Abraham: Don’t tell me what, tell him what once means: Put poo on our food?
Child P: Yes, because Papa, Papa…
Abraham: Don’t keep talking about the other Papa, right.
Child P: He was learning us.
Abraham & Ella: Teaching us.
Child P: He was teaching us.
Child Q: Signs.
Child P: To put, uh, poo on her food, and her toothbrush.
“Putting poo on people’s toothbrushes”: is this some obscure bit of Satanic lore?
Abraham: Yeah. They took my toothbrush and they wiped it around the toilet. And I kept getting sick, I kept getting the runs and I couldn’t work out why. And then I worked it out. Then I worked it out. And then when I realized they were doing it, I didn’t make a big scene because we already had enough pressure by finding out this. So what I did I kept cool, and I moved my toothbrush from the sink where I normally kept it and I put it into my bag, to let them know I knew what you were doing, I’m not going to make a scene for Mama, do not do it any more. And guess what, they did. They continued to do it to my toothbrush. So I raised it as an issue, and I gave them licks for it. I gave them good licks for it.
By “good licks”, Abraham means that he beat them hard with a spoon, although according to the children fists and boots were also involved. Was this the incident during which Abe beat Child Q so hard on the head that he ruptured his eardrum and gave him a black eye?
Ella: Now the thing is now when I learned about it all, I started to look back and I’ve seen this and now, now I’ve seen what is going on because, for example, when Child P was like really tiny, maybe like under one years old, still in the pram, one time she was, she was like crying for, I don’t know, non-stop for maybe an hour. Like screaming, screaming, screaming … I mean she was fed, she was changed, she didn’t have anything bad to upset her stomach, but she was screaming and screaming and screaming and, um, I think this was maybe the first time he did some sexual thing to her. And, um …
Child P: And remember that time I was in this little baby bed and I was screaming there for hours, for like maybe one hour, and Marsha was there, Marsha still was with you, and then, uh, trying to calm me down, that’s what I remember.
Is Ella really unaware that infants sometimes cry for no discernible reason? Every parent has run into this at one point or another, but most don’t attribute it to their children having been abused by a cult.
Ella: So, and then, kind of like now I could, I could see what’s going on, what was going on … I could recognize it.
Abraham: In hindsight, in hindsight, now you know what’s been going on.
Ella: So I could kind of, in my memory, I could pick out this could mean, must be that, must be that. But, at the time, I had no idea. It’s like I was going to the six weeks, um…Child P: Mum couldn’t even imagine that, Mum couldn’t even imagine that, of Papa doing sex to us and we were killing babies, she couldn’t even, she couldn’t even think of that.
Child Q: And we also, when me and Child P were kicking each others’ privates, I remember…
Ella: But, there, they, they…a couple of times, I think one of them…
Child Q: You remember in Sardinia she screamed, remember in Sardinia when…
Ella: …complained about it.
Child Q: Remember in Sardinia she would say ‘Idiot! Idiot! Child Q is an idiot!’ and then I would scream back at her, ‘Idiot!’ and then I asked her what does ‘idiot’ means, and you told me really, idiot means really really stupid, really stupid. And remember she was shouting, ‘Idiot! Idiot! Idiot!’
Ella: And I remember they were fighting a lot, and provoking me all the time, so it was just constant, constant stress.
Abraham: And making it difficult for you.
Ella: From the moment they woke up, to the school, and after school it was just total stress for me.
So really, this isn’t at all about the children. It’s about how difficult they made life for Ella. Got it.
Abraham: You were really making it difficult for Mama, because who told you to?
Child P: Papa.
Child Q: And also Papa tells Child P to do difficult in the airport, remember? Um, when, the time when…
Child P: Remember when Crystal went to London? But we stay, and we were too late for the flight?
Abraham: Crystal is the dog, Crystal is the dog.
Ella: We mixed up with flights…
Child Q: And Child P was distracting you with sweeties. ‘Can I buy this?’
Abraham: And she made us late for the flight.
So not only does RD inexplicably teach the children to put poo on people’s toothbrushes, but he somehow influences them to make the family late for a flight. Uh-huh.
Child Q: And before, Child P, Child P, Mum, before that, when we was in [inaud.], Mum was like a junkie! She buyed us Mentos, she done, she…
Ella: No! I mean…
Child P: She wasn’t a junkie, she didn’t buy us Mentos, but she bought us this chewing gum…this…
Ella: I just mean things for…
Abraham: (knowingly) Oh, yeah…
Child Q: And Mentos.
Abraham: Tell me about the Mentos, tell me about that.
Child Q: And also she buy us chewing gum.
Ella sounds guilty and evasive as the children grass her up for having bought them a pack of Mentos and some chewing gum. Fortunately, Abraham changes the subject.
J-C: Let’s…So you became aware now. You know.
J-C: You know about it. So what happened?
Ella: Yeah, so what happened…
J-C: Did you confront the Dad? Ask him about it?
Ella: No, no.
J-C: Why not?
Ella: We, uh…
Abraham: We didn’t know, Jean-Clement. She didn’t know then.
Ella: We only discovered two weeks ago, this whole thing.
Abraham: We only discovered this…
J-C: When you spoke to me?
Once again, the sticky topic of “when did we learn about this?” comes up. According to Jean-Clement’s court testimony, he’d heard from Abraham about the cult allegations beginning in July, but at other points during this three-hour video, the time-frame shifts from mid-August, to 2010, to during the children’s infancy.
Abraham: Jean-Clement, listen to me. We only discovered this…
Ella: Just now, just now…
Abraham: One moment—
Ella: … four weeks ago.
Abraham: I suspected this, listen I had my first suspicions about, almost two months ago, I think maybe a month, almost two months ago, when I first heard his voice on the, on the Skype.
Ella: On Skype, yeah.
Abraham: That was when I had my suspicions. I wasn’t one hundred per cent sure.
J-C: Oh, from the sound of his voice?
…or possibly they worked it out two months ago, when Abraham heard RD’s voice on a Skype call with the children. Who knows?
Abraham: And also because of the clues I’ve had from the children’s behavior, from them touching the dog…
Child Q: Yeah, we were touching the dog’s privates.
Abraham: And certain other clues.
Child P: Papa also hates Dogs, and he tells us to touch the privates.
Abraham: So, and certain other clues, I began to suspect heavily. And then when we got to Morocco and I realized that they were touching each other on a regular basis, I said to them: You guys are doing this regularly, how come no one’s caught you? Who is touching you? Who? I know someone else is touching you, you’ve learned this from an adult. Who is it, who is it? And then the …
J-C: That’s when they unfolded.
Abraham: Then they opened this up.
Ella: And then we realize it was their dad who did it.
J-C: That’s when it started.
Who knew that when children touch dogs’ private parts, it’s a sign of SRA?
Ella: Yeah. But I’ve knew about that touch each other. That was in the bathroom I caught them about two, two and a half years ago, and since we moved…
Child P: My grandma was with us, though.
Ella: I’d never caught them doing it. But when I came in the room I can see by their behaviour something was going on. And um, maybe twice. And um, so what happened then? Yeah, then we just discovered.
Once again, Ella never actually saw anything happening, but in hindsight was able to infer that because she and Abe had made up a cockamamie story about a cult, the children’s behaviour when she was not looking at them proved that they were being sexually abused, and were acting this out on one another.
To be continued…