This week we’ve been unravelling the Jean-Clement Yaohirou audio recording, which was made the night Ella, Abraham, and the children returned from Morocco. As we learned yesterday, Abraham and Ella had decided to bring the children back to the UK where they were allegedly in grave danger, because: reasons.
In today’s segment, we get down to the nitty-gritty of the case. Starting with how to spell RD’s name:
J-C: How do you spell dad’s surname?
J-C: Hmm…I see “Richard”.
Child P: Yes. Ricky Dearman.
Child P: No, his name is Ricky.
Abraham: It’s Richard but he calls himself Ricky.
J-C: How old is he?
Child P: No, he’s not 46, he’s 44. He’s young.
It’s interesting that Child P felt able to stand up to Abraham when it came to the particulars about her father: she corrects him without hesitation here. Go, Child P!
Abraham: Tell Jean-Clement. Ask them more questions.
J-C: When do you go to that school? What’s that school called?
Abraham: Christ Church.
Child P: Christ Church Primary School.
Abraham: [yells] YEAH!! I knew you would like that one! I knew you would like that one! ‘Christ’ Church. That’s how I knew!
Child P: Christ Church Primary School. N13…
Abraham: I knew you would like that one, Jean-Clement! I knew you would be impressed with that. (to Child P): Tell him about some of the other schools that are doing it.
Okay, if anybody in our reading audience knows why Abe was nearly wetting himself with joy over Jean-Clement’s reaction to the school’s name, could you please enlighten the rest of us? Was J-C once attacked by somebody named Christ Church? Anyone?
Child P: Mmm, Hampstead, Robert Parochial…all the schools in Hampstead around the area. St Luke’s, um, New End…
J-C: Just sorry, sorry, Child P. You gave me the post code NW1, you say?
Child P: Yeah, Christ Church School, Christ Church Primary School…N13 72J.
J-C: (writing?) N13…
Abraham: Hey, N13.
Child P: Sorry? I can’t hear you.
Child P: No, no, no, no, no. J. Like in ‘James’.
Why do they care about the post code so much? We will never learn, because at this point the doorbell sounds, and Abraham runs off to greet Ella. Jean-Clement and the children continue cataloguing schools in Hampstead.
J-C: And the school? Give me those schools you talked about.
Child P: New End, New End, Bickstrom’s (?)…
J-C: New End…
Abraham: (calling from another room) Child Q?
Child Q: Yes?
Child P: He told me to say it!
J-C: He’s talking about that…
Child P: I think she’s (inaud.)
J-C: Oh! Ah… New End? They’re all in Hampstead.
Both children: Yes.
Child P: All the schools in Hampstead, around the area. All the…St Luke’s, all kind of schools like that. Fitzjohn’s, New End, um, there’s just other schools. D’you know the school with this tree?
Child Q: That’s the school, that’s the tree symbol. I think Hampstead Heath School, something like that. Hampstead Heath Primary School.
Child P: My brother, he went to Fitzjohn’s when he was little.
[sounds of sticks banging together in another room?]
J-C: Okay, then.
Child P: Fitzjohn’s.
J-C: You’re always going to Christ Church Primary School.
Child Q: All the time, since year 1. Except when we didn’t go, cos that time we didn’t go to school that time.
Abraham: Child P!
Child P: Yes?
Abraham: Come and clean up the food, please.
[sounds of people moving around]
Abraham: Lie down…lie down…
Child P: I need paper.
Abraham: Child Q!
Child Q: Yes?
Abraham: Go on, pick it all up, son. Don’t step in it! Don’t talk, just pick it up, yeah? …
Erm, is Abraham making the little boy clean up the dog’s mess? Sounds that way to us.
Abraham: Look at me. I came from the airport like this.
J-C: You just come!
Abraham: I came from the airport like this. I came from the airport like this. I haven’t had time to wash or nothing. The mother, she got time to shower, to fix her face…it’s not funny!
J-C: It’s a little bit…
Abraham: (angrily) NO! This is her children’s welfare. It’s not time for this bullshit…J-C: Yeah…yeah…yeah…
Abraham: It’s because she didn’t see it that it was able to develop to this degree, you understand? Because she was too busy taking a shower!
As we listened to this, we began to wonder: is it possible that Abraham has actually drunk his own Kool-Aid? Because right here, it sounds almost as though he believes in the imaginary cult himself.
J-C: When did you become aware of this? When did you become aware that…when did they start doing these things to you?
Child Q: Like since we, so well, since we started…
Child P: Well, the first time…
J-C: Year 1? Junior 1?
Child P: Yes.
Child Q: The first first time…
Abraham: Since she was a baby, her father was doing…
Child P: The first time…
J-C: She wasn’t aware then.
Abraham: No, but the mother was starting to suspect.
Child P: Since we were babies they were doing it to us, but we didn’t know, that’s when I started to go well…
[loud sounds of washing up]
Abraham and Ella really need to get their stories straight.
Sometimes Ella had no idea about nuffink until they were two weeks into their holiday in Morocco. Sometimes she and Abe began to suspect in July 2014, before the holiday in Morocco. And in this instance, Ella was “starting to suspect” something was wrong when the children were infants. Which is it?
J-C: So was after school as well? After school?
Child P: After school they don’t do it. After school we come back home.
J-C: Ah, you come back home.
[more washing up sounds]
Abraham: Ella? Ella? Jean-Clement.
Ella: Pleased to meet you.
J-C: How do you do? …That’s some really disturbing news…
Ella: Mmmhmm, it were, one of the reasons we come here, you know. (chuckles) For quite a while…
[inaudible over washing sounds]
J-C: Aby told me that you got more information, so…
Ella: I brought…
J-C: But if you got most of the information it’s much better from you.
Ella: Of course.
Ella: I’m fine.
J-C: Is all your court orders in place?
J-C: Which of you, are having the kids two times per week?
Ella: Mmm, twice, mmm, every two weeks.
J-C: Every two weeks. Right. But you can’t justify that. Their behaviour can just prevent you from seeing Dad. Now, we need some specific information, like people, or whatever…
Ella: We got that.
J-C: I know. That’s what Aby said. So…
[sounds of moving around]
Child P: Where is the bin?
J-C: Oh, I put it outside. Yeah, in the front…
[sounds of Ella and Abe conferring in low voices]
Abraham: It’s okay, she’s on our side, okay? She’s on our side. Yeah?
Child P: We got our sandwiches and we got a bit of chocolate cake.
J-C: And you got some paper?
Ella: Yes. And it’s a good thing [inaud.]
J-C: is it better to record this so I don’t have to keep on writing?
Ella: What I have is this here (sound of zipper) that has all the things. You know, like…addresses…
J-C: You want my email address?
Ella: This could be a bit, a bit, a bit, umm, how do you say…a bit of a problem.
J-C: I’ll come over.
Ella: Because we be kind of like I didn’t go through it, or edit it, or anything like that.
J-C: It’s not edited.
Ella: So, uh, no, but it’s, it’s, it’s okay…
J-C: No, that’s exactly what you want!
Ella: Sometimes, it’s maybe difficult…
J-C: No, that’s exactly what you want, something which is not edited.
Ella: Oh, and what is the address I should send it to?
Ella: I don’t speak English, but I can send it to you, you know? I’ll send you the brief. Er, Jean-Clement Yaohirou, at xxx.com, yes.
J-C: Yeah. I have another brief, that’s what that may be.
[Loud noise in background—dishes being put away?]
Ella: We just come up today because we were talking to them.
J-C: Then you come tell me. So I don’t…I’m just looking at you, I can guess, right, I’m having to write. Because if I’m writing, I won’t be actually listening.
J-C: I’m gonna need some specifics though.
Ella: Okay. So do you want me to just read it out, or…?
J-C: No, just in the list, it’s all right.
Ella: Yes, it’s all written.
Hang on, does Jean-Clement actually think he’s running this case, like a regular police officer? Because it sounds an awful lot like that’s what he’s trying to do.
Abraham: (to the children) A bit more tea so you can drink a bit of tea, okay?
Children: Thank you Papa.
Abraham: You got your glasses? Here’s a little picture of my Mum and my sister.
Child P: That’s Mum, the one who’s sitting, but the one who’s standing up is his sister.
Abraham: I’ll take them out.
J-C: Yes, please, Aby, thank you.
Abraham: Now let’s go see the picture. You see my mum?
Child P: She looks just like you, the mum. The mum looks just like you. Look, she has really greasy hair. Your mum is just as special as my mum.
They really do seem fascinated with that picture, don’t they? And note how Child P cleverly insults Abe, without his seeming to notice.
Ella: Which one?
Abraham: That’s my mum and my sister June. The one that makes me crazy. She’s married to Jean-Clement.
Ella: Okay [laughs].
Child Q: She’s married? To Jean-Clement?
Ella: I’m sure she’s very sweet.
Abraham: Yeah…she got very lucky. Or Jean-Clement got bad luck.
Child Q: I think that’s the same. Like Child P, she could be like Child P, they’re brothers and sisters.
Abraham: Shh, don’t talk, no talking. Drink. Now come with me.
Ella: I’ve got them, few of them…
Abraham: Well done, Mama. (To children): Come on, we’ve got peaches and chocolate cake, come on…
Child P: Lucky!
Abraham: Peaches and chocolate cake and strawberries, eh? You got to come with me, though. (To Ella) Show him the drawings. (To J-C): We’ll show you now that we know what we’re doing.
Ella: This is, um…drawing…
Abraham: The drawing of the private parts of the headmistress. Is that the headmistress? That’s the headmistress that’s got the private part tattoo. Don’t be embarrassed, Jean-Clement! I’m sure you’ve seen females’ private parts before.
J-C: Not with tattoos.
Abraham: [laughs loudly]
J-C: Okay…now you guys go ahead and just talk.
Abraham: [laughs again] ‘Not with tattoos’, very good.
Ella: [sound of shuffling papers] And, um, there’s more, there’s some more, few other people. What I’ve got, what have I got? I’ve got…mmm…where is this? (to Abraham) Did you give it to me?
Abraham: Yes, in the other book.
Ella: In the other book. There’s two books. The plans as well for the church and school.
J-C: Who drew these ones?
Abraham/Ella: The children.
Abraham: This is a picture of…who drew this?
Ella: Child P.
Abraham: Who is this? This is the headmistress?
Child P: Yes.
Abraham: This is Papa?
Child P: No, no, no! …Yes.
Abraham: This is Papa?
Child P: Yes.
Abraham: And this is Mr ____.
Child P: No, the headmistress is first, and the middle is Papa.
Abraham: I know that! Headmistress…Papa…Mr _____.
J-C: What’s, erm…
Abraham: These red things? These are birthmarks they have. The headmistress has a big, pink…a big pink birthmark. I wonder how the children could know that the headmistress has a big, pink, birthmark? And how could they also know that she has a tattoo? And how could they also draw it so intricately? How could they know about the headmistress’s birthmark so intimately? How could they also know…
J-C: Um, what…
Abraham: …big brown wart…
J-C: Where are they actually?
Child Q: Miss _____.
Abraham: Here. Here. Where’s the birthmark?
J-C: No, no, no…
Abraham: Come and show Jean-Clement where the birthmark…Let them show you!
J-C: No, no, no, we’re not specialists for children, we can’t hear this…
J-C: Specialty people can…
Abraham: Just get the information please.
J-C: So it’s just on the thighs?
Abraham: No, it’s not on the thighs…
J-C: I..I…you’re telling me…
Abraham: No, Jean-Clement. Your sensibilities…look, if he was white, you’d see he’s blushing now. [laughs]
Ella: They are basically between the legs on the front privates.
J-C: All right. Okay, that’s better.
As we have seen in Parts 1 and 2 of this transcription, Abraham seems to think nothing of ordering Jean-Clement about in his own home. Here, he seems to take a bit of sadistic pleasure from his brother-in-law’s discomfiture over the drawings of naked people with tattoos.
Ella: So there is, mmm, the…
J-C: Aby, you’re terrible, eh?
Abraham: Thank you. It’s my job.
Ella: But we’ve got the plans and earphones, we can just…but I didn’t do…
Abraham: Yes, we’ve got full plans, yes, I showed Jean-Clement. He’s got my phone there somewhere.
Ella: I thought there was everything in one book, so I only took that…
Abraham: Ella, Ella, we’ve got both books, Ella, you’ve got…
Ella: No, no, no…the same one, the same one with…
Abraham: We’ve got the plans, we’ve got the plans. Of the secret rooms where they keep the skulls. Also, where do they keep the bowl that they catch the blood in, and the knife that they cut the baby with?
Child P: There’s a cupboard there.
Abraham: A cupboard where, darling?
Child P: (long pause) There’s a cupboard in the secret room, and next to it…in the wardrobe, you have to come in the wardrobe.
J-C: So there’s a…is that a walk-in wardrobe?
Child P: Yes. And just on the side there’s a little cupboard, and when you go in the secret room…
J-C: So you go in the cupboard, and then you go down the stairs.
Child P: So there’s a wardrobe, so it’s in his bedroom though.
J-C: All right.
Ella: We’re talking about what, Child P—the church, or his house?
Abraham: Papa’s bedroom.
Child P: So when you go in his house, see, here’s his room, here’s the door when you come in the room. So you come in, here’s a wardrobe. Open it up, and then just on the side there’s a little cupboard. And when you come inside, there’s another, you see you’ve just got like hangers with coats, and you have to part them, and you can see a little door there. You have to open it, and there’s stairs going down, towards this big secret room, with a big secret kitchen. And there’s cupboards there, there’s a cupboard just there, and they keep the cutlery…
Not for the first time, we are struck between the almost exact correspondence between Child P’s description of the wardrobe which leads to a secret room, and the eponymous Wardrobe from C.S. Lewis’ childhood classic, The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. Right down to there being “hangers with coats”, which one must part to see the “little door” which leads to an imaginary realm.
J-C: have you seen that room?
Abraham: They keep the cutlery…we haven’t seen any…
Ella: Actually we didn’t even know, because…
J-C: You live there?
Ella: No, no no, it’s his house.
J-C: Oh, you live different?
Ella: I haven’t seen him for over than two, like two months ago, I haven’t seen him maybe for two or three years…
J-C: So you never used to live before, together?
Ella: This…no, no, no, no. Um, wish we didn’t live together. I mean he was staying in house for little while, then he found another flat, um, not very far, actually the next street. Then he been, kind of like just going down, um, and he was bought four or five years, it was 2009. Wait, 2009, I think? Yeah.
Abraham: Mum, it’s raw. It’s raw vegan, okay?
This interruption brought to you by Abraham Christie, king of the non sequitur.
J-C: He move out of the family room…of the family house?…That correct? He move out of the family house?
Ella: No, no, no. He never lived in my house actually. Um, he had a flat. On the next nearby road.
Ella: He stayed in my house maybe only for half…for three months? Or year, something like that. I don’t remember right now very well. And that kind of relationship was going on maybe for two years, two and a half years…
J-C: But you never used to live together.
J-C: All right, okay.
Ella: Only just for a very short period of time, and um, so he had this flat for two years on nearby road, literally around the corner, and since 2010…yeah, 2011 I applied for the non-molestation order, because he was violent to me…
J-C: What is that?
Ella: Non-molestation order. And since then the legal proceeding started for two years.
J-C: Since when? 2012?
Ella: 2010. For two years. And basically he wanted me to give him the children. Really I wanted to kind of limit…I mean, I didn’t know what was going on.
Ella: I knew was something…
Okay, for those keeping count, we are now up to four possibilities:
- Ella knew nothing at all until mid-August 2014.
- Ella knew nothing at all until mid-July 2014.
- Ella suspected something was up when the children were infants.
- Ella suspected something was up in 2010.
J-C: So you wanted to split like, half responsibility for the children?
Ella: No, no, no. I didn’t want to give him the children.
J-C: No. You wanted responsibility for the children, that’s why you started the court proceeding. For, you wanted to get them. That’s basically why you wanted to do that.
Ella: Well, yes. He was violent to me. On, you know, several occasions. And once it was quite bad one. He almost killed me.
Oddly, Ella’s near-death experience didn’t make it into the police report. Oversight, no doubt.
J-C: You called the police?
Ella: Yeah. I’ve got like five call in to the police.
Ella: And that time he was arrested. And it was, you know, quite bad, and he was…
J-C: So all this was in 2010.
Ella: This was end of 2009, this incident happened.
J-C: So he was arrested around 2009.
Ella: Yeah. But then, he showed up in my house one day when my mum was there, and there was a big argument there, where he pushed my mum, and then soon after, I applied for this non-molestation order.
J-C: And what was it for? ABH (Actual Bodily Harm), or…
Ella: It was just kind of protection like bail, you know, where he couldn’t…
J-C: Then he was arrested in 2009 for being violent towards you?
Ella: Yeah, domestic violence…
J-C: Ah, for domestic violence.
Ella: For damage to…to…
Ella: To property because he’d broken a glass or something else, um…
J-C: And also, your mum was present.
Ella: No, no, no, this was second time, when…um, he…
J-C: After legal proceeding?
Ella: No, no, no, that was this incident, after he was arrested, he had a bail for one month where he couldn’t go round certain radius to my house, and then, about two or three months later, um, this incident happened between him and my mum, and then I applied for non-molestation order. I received it ex parte, and they gave me for three months, but then it was, um, prolonged for another half a year. Now, since then the legal proceedings started. He was fighting for his contact, I tried to limit it as much as possible. So they did allow contacts. It wasn’t every day, it was every two weeks, or…
Child Q: Every Saturday!
Ella: Every Saturday for six hours. From ten to…no, it was a long day, it was, um…
Abraham: (returning from another room) Jean-Clement, I just want to remind you that the solicitors who are in the area are generally involved in the cult. I’m just sharing with you, just to remind you. Sorry, I just thought I’d interject there.
For all your non sequitur needs, call Abraham Christie! We now return you to your regular scheduled programme.
Ella: Yeah, yeah. Um…
J-C: So contact was allowed from 10 to 6?
Ella: 10 to 6, yes. All day. It was all day. All day every Saturday.
J-C: But he has to come to the house, so…
Ella: No, no…it was, um….
J-C: He have to bring the children.
Ella: We arrange to…
J-C: To meet somewhere.
Ella: Somewhere in a public place.
J-C: So he can’t be over, so he probably have to be there for 8 o’clock, so he phone you and tell you the time is coming? How does it work?
Ella: We had fixed hours. 10 o’clock until 6 p.m…. 10 a.m. to 6 p.m.
Ella: And, um…
J-C: Every Saturday?
Ella: Yeah. But it didn’t go well, this contact. It was constant problems. I mean he would be feeding them some junk, they were coming sick back home, and so it was like finally, in 2012, I think it was about September, October, it was two incidents, one I wasn’t aware of, until later, but the main one, he retained children at unknown address. Now, during this time, he gave court different addresses, and so looks like he was staying here, staying there, and then at the final hearing, he all of a sudden declare he doesn’t want contacts any more. He doesn’t want contacts, so he give up the contacts…
J-C: So that’s 2012.
J-C: That was the end of 2012.
Ella: Yeah, in December 2012. Now then, he disappeared for maybe about a year and a half.
Child P: Two years…two years but he was actually coming to the school.
Ella: But I didn’t know that, I thought…for one year, I know he was travelling.
J-C: So you decided not to have contact for like almost a year.
Ella: He gave up. He gave up contact completely.
J-C: But just gave up?
Ella: Yeah, at the hearing he declared he doesn’t want…
J-C: Ah, so you went to a hearing in December, you went to court.
Ella: It was a hearing, I mean basically he would have received contact, they would allow him to do contact. But all of a sudden he said that he found he can’t fight any more, something like that, he said that he had no money for solicitors, even though he was representing himself…
J-C: Yeah, so he relinquished…
Abraham: He relinquished.
Ella: Mmm. And he said that, you know, I’m creating all kinds of obstacles for him not to see children, which I really did. I mean, within what…within my, kind of order. Yeah, so. He’s disappeared, but then I learned from different…
J-C: For how long?
Ella: Maybe for…for a year and a half.
J-C: So from that December…
Ella: From that December until June 2013.
J-C: That only last like six months, you know.
J-C: That’s six months. So you mean June ’14.
Ella: Maybe I’ve got the years wrong. I think…
J-C: You will only know if you look at the court papers anyway.
Ella: The final hearing, it was not the end of 2012, it was 2011.
J-C: Yes, yeah.
Ella: Must be the proceedings started in 2009.
J-C: So he said he didn’t want any responsibility.
Ella: No….I heard from some people who know him that he was either in America? He was in America I think.
Child P: Yes.
Ella: How did you know? Are you having once conversation on Skype with him, right? Around Christmas or something, no?
Child P: No, I don’t remember that time.
Ella: Remember he told you he was doing some video in America, remember?
Child P: When I was little, though. When I was a tiny girl.
Ella: No, no, it was maybe when you were about six? Uh, seven, you were seven.
Child P: No, I don’t remember that.
Ella: It was something once, she had a conversation on Skype around Christmas time, and he said, told children he was in America. I think maybe two, three, four months he was there? Then I know he was in India, but I don’t know exactly, you know, at that time, and the children also mentioned he was in Thailand around this time. And 2013, in June, at the end of June, he asked me to talk to them. And I allowed. So it was three times that we spoke on Skype, but then he started to bring up some inappropriate subjects during the Skype. He sent me, for example, he sent me two emails saying that he saw me on some porn sites, and I ignored it. And I think I responded to his second email saying, you know, don’t send me this kind of email, something like that, and then…and then he brought it up again during Skype conversation. With children. Typing it, like you know, to give to children, you know, to send me this kind of message as well. And I said you know, if you’re going to carry on, we’re just going to stop this. And then [inaud.] didn’t happen, and I just cut it off. And in September, he applied…
We noted Ella’s concern about RD talking about having found her image on porn sites about a month ago; it is apparently not unusual for Russian “gold-digger academies” to harvest “compromat” from their students, sometimes in the form of pornographic images. We don’t know whether this happened to Ella, but RD’s persistence can be seen as making honest attempts to warn the mother of his children that the images existed.
J-C: September ’13.
Ella: September ’13, I had an opportunity to move, to the south of France. I had some friends who invited me to go, and they…
J-C: Vous parlez français?
Ella: Un peu. And since he hadn’t like [didn’t show up?] I thought if he doesn’t give me written permission, which is procedure, I may go to the court, and you know say that he hasn’t seen children…
J-C: But he had [inaud.] order already, why would you need written permission?
Ella: He did have order. At the final hearing they gave me a residence order, they arrange any contacts.
J-C: Ah, all right, I see.
Ella: So in September I called him, while my children were with my parents in Russia.
J-C: They were on holiday.
Ella: They were on holidays, yes, summer holidays.
J-C: That was like September ’13?
Ella: Yeah. So I go to him and say I’m thinking to move to the south of France, I mean, I have no idea, and I knew that this was the procedure, because I enquired with solicitors much, much before, you know, what if I wanted to move out of the country, what the steps would be. So I give him a call saying that I’m thinking to do that, you know, and he says no, he’s not going to allow it to happen, so okay, I knew my next step will be, like, to go to court. However, on the 4th of September, I think it was a Friday, the next working day he went and applied for prohibit steps, saying that I’m taking out, that I’m trying to take them out of the country, and something, few other things like that. I’ve been abusive to children, and another application he made for the residence of children at that time. And so it was a hearing at the end of 2013, it was like intermediate, and nothing was decided. And the contacts was not allowed, nothing. Nevertheless, nevertheless in November there was anonymous call to NCPCC, child protection, um, agency, saying they give couple, uh, couple basically about me, saying that I’ve been abusive to children, I don’t feed them, I’m mentally unstable, and something else, um, something else. Apparently, I found, I was suspecting as much, a, um, neighbour, upstairs, that we had a bit of a problem, you know she didn’t like trampoline in the garden. I thought she just wanted to create problems.
So really, Ella’s problems with child custody went a bit deeper than “he wants extra access”: RD was refusing to allow her to take the children out of the country, no doubt fearing that if she did that he would never see them again. He had begun legal proceedings to prevent her from taking the children away, and in this snippet of conversation, Ella sounds quite annoyed about it.
Abraham: Trampoline…We had a big trampoline, we got a big trampoline in the garden. The neighbour above, she complained about the trampoline, she complained about just about anything should could find to complain about.
Ella: But it was a communal garden. Actually, shouldn’t put a private property in the garden. But, you know, she didn’t like it. Apparently, the same lady she’s part of this cult as well. Now looks like they…
J-C: OK. The lady, who live above you…
J-C: …is part of the cult?
J-C: But you didn’t know?
Ella: I had no idea, I had no idea.
J-C: The kids never told you about any abuse that was happening to them?
Ella: Nothing at all.
Abraham: Did the lady upstairs abuse you? She never touched you, did she?
Child P: No, but Papa is friends with her. She met, they met each other.
Abraham: Papa is friends with her. But she doesn’t have an appetite for children?
Child P: No.
Abraham: She is just friends, she is just an associate of the cult, she helps them and they help her.
Child P: She doesn’t, she doesn’t really like children.
Abraham: She doesn’t really like children?
Ella: She tries to cover things for him and…
Child P: Aggressive.
J-C: Did she ever attend any of the schools?
Child P: Does she have children?
J-C: No. Did she attend any of the meetings?
Ella: The parties.
J-C: The cult.
Child P: Yes. She’s friends with Papa. She’s friends with my Dad. But she doesn’t like, she doesn’t like the children, she doesn’t like touching them. Well, she does, she likes like what Papa’s doing to them. Because he’s mean to them, she’s mean to them, but she doesn’t touch them because she doesn’t like, she doesn’t even like to be near children. She’s not…she’s aggressive.
J-C: But she attended meeting?
Ella: She was at the parties?
Child P: Yes.
Ella: You know, these fun sex parties, which she told me…
Child P: Yes, yes.
Ella: And she did do the, did she participated in the, um, you know, killing babies and drinking blood and all this?
Child P: Yes, yes, yes. But she doesn’t, she doesn’t touch like, she doesn’t go near children.
J-C: She doesn’t get involved, she just watches.
Child P: Yes.
J-C: And she doesn’t get involved.
Child P: Yes. But she does, she does sometimes does drink blood, she does.
Ella: And she eats meat as well?
Child P: Yes. She usually does.
J-C: So when she goes there with you, and you know she goes there…
Child P: Yes?
J-C: …and you see her…
Child P: Uh-huh?
J-C: In your…in the passage or in the corridor, do you speak to her?
Child P: No. She doesn’t talk to children.
J-C: Oh, she doesn’t talk to children.
Child P: She doesn’t like children. She doesn’t like.
J-C: So she doesn’t bother you at all?
Child P: No. She doesn’t like children.
Why would a person who “doesn’t like children” bother to become involved in a cult specifically devoted to them? By astonishing coincidence, this same person had also reported Ella for child neglect and cruelty, related to her having found the two children locked out on a balcony, crying, cold, and hungry.
These were the charges which would lead to Ella being contacted by social services—and if you’ll recall from yesterday, Abe and Ella had decided that the children’s social worker was “in the cult” as well. It’s almost as if the only criteria for belonging to this “cult” is that you have done something, at some time, to piss Abe or Ella off.
More to follow…