The question of belief

A topic of some discussion at HR HQ these days is whether those who promote the Hoaxtead SRA hoax actually believe what they are saying. In a fascinating livestreamed video on Friday night, YouTuber “Cip’s Clips” led a discussion about what he termed the “TFR Cult”—Truth Frequency Radio, which styles itself “Your protection from deception”.

 

Four of Cip’s guests were ex-TFR hosts, and it was interesting to hear them discuss the issue of belief. It seems that much of the time, hosts were endorsing certain conspiracy theories and other material which they knew to be false—but they knew it would bring them clicks, which of course is the name of the game online.

But what about the Hoaxtead mob?

It’s quite clear that some of those who promote the hoax are indeed true believers, who think the world is run by a mysterious cabal which maintains its power through rituals involving child sexual abuse, murder, and cannibalism. Such believers were described by a judge in 2016 as “irrational, obsessional, delusional, and odd”, which seemed pretty apt under the circumstances.

It seems likely that those at the top of the hoaxers’ pyramid are less gullible, but still, there’s no real way to prove whether people like Belinda, Angela, or Wesley truly believe or are simply using the hoax for their own nefarious purposes.

We could argue this back and forth all day, but ultimately it really just does not matter.

At the end of the 2016 trial, the judge handed down restraining orders which prevented the accused—who had by that time been found “not guilty”—from engaging in certain actions. (And no, we are not going to go into why the restraining orders are legal. Those who doubt their legality are perfectly capable of looking it up for themselves. They will find that Judge Worsley acted in accordance with standard legal practice.)

This expresses an important principle: whether or not any given person believes that children are being raped, murdered, and eaten in a church in Hampstead, the law will hold them responsible for their behaviour.

In other words, being “irrational, obsessional, delusional, and odd” is not a defence against causing harm to others.

At the risk of invoking Godwin’s law, consider the Nazis: one of their core beliefs was that Germans were representative of an idealised “Aryan master-race”—blond, blue-eyed people of Nordic stock, who were inherently superior to…well, everybody, really.

Insane as this belief now seems (unless one is Tommy Robinson or a “Proud Boy”), it became the excuse for the murder of millions of people the Nazis considered “inferior”: not just six million Jews, but five million non-Jews, including Gypsies, people of African descent,  Jehovah’s Witnesses, homosexuals, those who were physically and mentally disabled, Communists, Social Democrats, resistance fighters, prisoners of war, Slavic peoples, and anyone Hitler or his thugs disliked for whatever reason.

The fact that the Nazis believed passionately and fervently that the people they murdered were deserving of death makes no difference to history’s judgement of their actions.

Obviously, the Hampstead SRA hoax is hardly comparable to mass genocide. However, our point is that whether the Hampstead hoaxers believe passionately and fervently in what they are doing, or are using the story to generate fear and disgust amongst the gullible, it makes no difference.

Wrong is wrong, and being on the wrong side of the law will result in serious consequences, belief or no belief. belief

99 thoughts on “The question of belief

  1. Unfortunately some people will believe anything fed to them, particularly those that are Christian zealots, that encompasses all religions under the umbrella of Christianity.

    As for the main players believing it, nope, not a hope in Hell do they. Too many go fund me accounts have been opened looking for money to ‘continue their work’, ie: smokes, booze, weed, replacement tech, getting bills paid, payment ‘in kind’, shudder, does that come with ‘benefits’ I wonder!

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  2. “Much of the time, hosts were endorsing certain conspiracy theories and other material which they knew to be false—but they knew it would bring them clicks”

    Yes, this is an unfortunate condition known as Matt Taylor syndrome. Sufferers come from all walks of life, symptoms include vomiting (of random made-up facts), diarrhoea (mostly verbal) and insomnia (due to guilty conscience). Treatment involves withdrawal (from Mum’s basement), fresh air (if the sufferer can remember where to find it) and a healthy diet (of Flo Destroyer, Hellbound Heathen, WCM, Cips Clips and MK Ultra 666 videos). Patients are also advised to “give their fucking heads a wobble”.

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  3. Excellent analysis, EC.

    By the way, another group that could be added to that list of Nazi oppressees is trade unionists, though that one may need explaining to the hoaxer fruitloops seeing as most of them are unfamiliar with the concept of work.

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  4. 15:37 – “Four adults were convicted in Telford Shroap…Shrothfire…Can’t say those English weird names. How comes everything’s a shire? Must be where Tolkien got the idea.” 🙄

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  5. Interesting comments in the chat. I guess Dunny’s followers aren’t familiar with the New Testament.

    Also – Ryn Tin Tin is a real name is it, Tom? 🙄🙄🙄

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  6. Stoneyhurst school in Lancashire is where Tolkien was inspired for the Hobbit / shire. Years later Chris Morris went there. Well Harry potter.

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  7. He was also inspired by places around Solihull, Warwickshire and Worcestershire, having grown up in Hall Green. Just down the road from Ben Fellows, who’s also famous for telling fantastic tales.

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  8. Yeah. Eight hour flight to Europe, so easy to not notice you’re 3000 miles from home. I can’t remember if I’ve been to new York once or never.

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  9. It frightens me.
    A cousin is compiling an ancestry of differing branches of the family and has traced one branch back to East Sussex in the 1500s. Presumably they were just farmers like most people but did they believe tales of witches and stand by or even participate in the terrible murder of hapless ladies (and men) accused of witch craft?.
    If gossip was spread and just accepted verbatim merely because it was repeated it must have been frightening. Trying to keep one’s head down in case you didn’t upset the neighbors or the local nutcase (reference: see “Princess Neelu of Planet Bongo”) was surely tense. Or did people believe it couldn’t possibly happen to them?.

    And now we have the megaphone of the Internet and discover there are 100,000s of people out there who are only too happy to try and destroy lives on gossip alone. (reference: see “Thomas Dunn”,”APD” “Fiona Barnett” “Lou Lotus” etc).
    And not only that, they don;t give a thought to the relatives of those they accuse, children and so on who may be severely affected for life. It’s a sort of academic game that doesn’t involve “real” people and the worst part: they mostly claim to be Christians!.

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  10. “Patients are also advised to “give their fucking heads a wobble”.”
    This is better done after extracting it from their nether regions…

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  11. ‘if nothing happened why are people so upset ?’ err Tom, because nothing you claim happened happened but a pair of idiots drugged and tortured kids into a zombie like state and gave out a series of lies and you want them and their father to suffer while the wankers who did the abuse are held up as heroic whistle blowers and you just wanna sell t shirts . Yeah, why would we possibly be upset and challenging you. Face it Tommy you’ve stepped into an arena inhabited by grown adults any one of which out classes you and collectively are dedicated to rebuking the garbage you spout.

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  12. Hoaxtead posters have excelled themselves this year and I have no idea how many will receive this coveted award at the upcoming glittering event.
    Apparently anyone can be nominated now and they are able to attach to their name with their credential initials “Koala Award Nominee” (just like Nobel Award Nominee : reference: see “Robert Green / Jailed / Scotland”).
    I hear there is a nominal fee of £250 to nominate someone this year but it all goes to charity. Make your cheques ( or send cash) out to : ‘Sam of The Ghost Family & Cressida Witheringham-Babcock’s Caribbean Cruise”.
    We also have a Paypal account & a GoFundMe appeal to accept generous donations which will be dispensed to the needy workers at the British Colonial Hilton Hotel, Nassau, The Bahamas.

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  13. Has cat got round to adding Tolkien to her list of literary sly winking paedos ? Gandolf and his love of the ‘little folk’ the underground cavern dwelling dwarves and of course the forest of hull elves who chase maidens like Becki percy. And the ‘ring’ is obviously a paedo ring. How could we have missed it, it’s obviously a nonce novel.

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  14. I had Freeman, ofty, land printing works produce my nominations in each category for 7 quid each. They even threw in a lairdship of the forest of beckingham with the rights to hunt every new moon. I’ll sweep the board with a land mark win of every single award and the judge saying it was the best koalas ceremony of his career.

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  15. ‘if nothing happened why are people so upset ?’

    This hoax has drawn into the open so many who have sociopath personalities (estimated 4%: USA?. over 12 million people).
    They say society needs a certain amount of sociopaths to operate but they should never be in charge. (Doesn’t help to have a president who seems to be one: Read Fear in The White House by Bob Woodward and the blatant and persistent lies told until they are demolished but the person simply changes tack without a quibble is frightening. No wonder he has inspired his like-minded fans).

    I don’t know if anyone else on here has actually dealt with a sociopath in a dispute as I have. When shrinks say if you realize a person is one- you should run for the hills and not look back. I categorically endorse that sentiment.

    I wasn’t even the target, just assisting others but the victims created by this one sociopath in a legal dispute (which my friends won) were legion and most especially- the allies of the sociopath who one-by-one were devastated as the scales fell from their eyes and they realized they had been convinced on lies presented to them in an articulated manner. They were the true victims as each one began to question their own sanity.

    For Thomas Dunn to even say : “‘if nothing happened why are people so upset ?” implies a complete lack of empathy in his targets / victims. He really does not know or understand why someone like RD (and supporters let alone families in Hampstead) would be upset.
    It’s difficult for us reasonably normal (editor: speak for yourself) people to understand that someone could have no empathy. Judges exhibit empathy every day of the week as they sentence people and take into consideration factors that may have led a person to crime.

    # Also a very good reason to NEVER give these fanatics personal information no matter how they challenge you. Information to them is ammunition to be used against you at any time in the future.

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  16. i should explain that I asked Scarlet to edit that comment for me. I originally put up 6 notifications but whilst the other 5 comments were indeed removed by Facebook, it was only because they were replies to the deleted post. It’s still positive, though, as i think that’s the first ever strike we’ve had against her backup account (she’s relatively careful with that one). Also, it means that if we do get one against her main one within the next 30 days, she’ll be completely muted on Facebook.

    Anyhoo, this is the post that was removed by Facebook:

    And this is the one she’s just put up on her main account – and let’s just say she’s not enjoying her Sabbath, hehe…

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  17. “And no, we are not going to go into why the restraining orders are legal. Those who doubt their legality are perfectly capable of looking it up for themselves. They will find that Judge Worsley acted in accordance with standard legal practice.”

    You may have to explain that to Angela, EC – she still doesn’t get it. She’s just posted this on Neelu’s page:

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  18. Another one of Dunny’s creepy followers (and also a follower of Eddieisnotok apparently) demonstrating his ignorance of the Hampstead case:

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  19. Sociopaths are a satisfying target. They fight to the bitter end and end up like the black Knight in Monty python’s holy grail.

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  20. Angie ‘ I don’t need a lawyer for my 45 minute interview under caution and I’ll stretch it out for 3 hours’ Power Disney is pretty much the least equipped person to discuss legal matters.

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  21. Sorry GROBNOB & EC. I didn’t realise the hangouts was on with HH. Well worth listening to with excellent explanations by EC of a lot of things to do with the hoax.

    I can see Dunn setting sail to England in his grubby boat actually. Anyone who posts a live called, ‘Breaking News’ and goes on to talk about Taco closing & the nearest one to him is 1,000 miles away has serious problems.

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  22. I’ve had a rummage through the YT comments and I’m wondering if it’s this one (which I agree with, btw):

    Incidentally, it seems Angie’s donors are getting wise to her now. She hardly gets any donations these days.and her €1 million is slipping further and further away 🤣

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  23. Explaining the law to APD is a thankless task, however it’s Section 5A, Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (as amended) if she’s passing.

    A criminal trial requires beyond reasonable doubt levels of evidence. A restraining order is a civil injunction and is on the balance of probabilities, so the upshot is that on the civil threshold the judge determined that Neelu was guilty of harassment.

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  24. I think you’re right that during the years of the witch trials, people just kept their heads down. As I understand it, moral panics are a means of social control.

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  25. Family trees are a rabbit hole that some people might not want to go down.

    One of my great grandmothers died in a mental asylum, another great grandmother was acquitted of larceny. My great grandfather was jailed for a month for failing to support his wife and children, my great great grandfather was arrested and jailed for desertion from the army but allowed to rejoin… however I’m still trying to get to the bottom of the family legend that my great great great great great great great great grandfather was found guilty of regicide.

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  26. I’m also thinking that a restraining order shouldn’t be a problem for anyone unless they’re planning to do something that requires them to be ‘restrained’. If, for instance, Neelu was innocent of harassing Hampstead residents, then she had nothing to worry about with that order.

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  27. Funny you say that, Angie…

    …as I was just thinking the same about your treatment of Sheva Burton 🤔

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  28. Good luck with that, Neelu 🙄


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  30. She’ll announce it in a year’s time, like she did with Roger Moore’s death, the 20th anniversary of Dunblane and the appearance of Jonathan King in that Genesis documentary 😆

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  31. I love these loony Catholic conspiracy theories. They are so wide of the mark it is risible. Now if they’d gone for Opus Dei… er, I may have said to much. Forget I said anything.

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  32. Watching a TV documentary about conspiracies tonight I’m reminded how the Hoaxers and fanatics seized upon the Jill Dando murder and “claimed” it for themselves on the dodgy claim she was about to expose a high level pedophile ring, with lots of undertones that she was pals of a recently falsely accused top pop singer etc which meant something or other.

    One expert claimed that Dando was most likely murdered ( I recall talk at the time) probably by a Serbian hit-man in retaliation after Blair & Clinton bombed a Serbian TV station about 4 weeks earlier killing numerous employees like make-up assistants and presenters.
    Dando had also fronted a TV appeal just after the TV station bombing for refugees from the Serb atrocities.

    Blair justified the bombing on the dubious claim they were broadcasting propaganda and our expert claimed this angered the Serbs and the hit was almost an exact copy of another journalist murdered identically 2 weeks earlier in Belgrade and the method was favoured as a way of sending a message : we can take you out on your own doorstep.

    Whatever the truth (logical explanations are usually the best) The Mob (c) and Associates seize upon any awful incident and seem to suck the life out of any event as they weave it into their own fantasies.
    Especially the ones who are claiming to be Christians.

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  33. I’ve had 2 and they are like being knee capped.
    She should check the source of her “knee replacement offer” as it could be a coded message from Tracey Morris or even that other one Angie argues with whose name escapes me (she’s always threatening to head butt people)
    Knee capping is of course much favored by the IRA.

    On the plus side if it’s real it will put her out of action for about 6 weeks and she’ll need heavy doses of Oxycontin which will send her off with the fairies and she’s liable to be all lovey dovey to everyone.

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  34. I’ve heard that it’s very painful Sam.

    Ah yeah, a coded message from TM, lol.

    Kneecapping is scary stuff, anyone threatening it & carrying it out is beyond cruel. There was a time in a certain part of Ireland that young men & their fathers were threatened with just that if they did not join a certain group. My sister’s friend’s father shot himself rather than join. It was a cruel, cruel threat.

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  35. https://steemit.com/irishcorruption/@angelascaches/ireland-q-anon-maurice-mccabe-when-police-break-the-law-there-is-no-law.

    I missed that one of hers!

    Now I see why she went after Maurice McCabe & his family! His father was actually fobbing her off about giving her money towards Kenya but she wasn’t taking it well.

    Most business’ have a charity that they support, tax purposes aside, a local business will support a local branch of a charity & he must have told her that he donates the €25,000 each year to SVP. Hence the slur on them also.

    Note she puts a quick insulting slur on a place for children in the grounds of Kilnacrott. I can’t even describe my anger at her for saying what she did about a place that caters for inner city children from Dublin who have never seen the countryside, never seen farm animals except on TV, they are brought to the centre every day in different groups to have fun, get stable meals & are so we’ll looked after. I will be passing that slur on to this wonderful centre.

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  36. Oh the shame of it! EC knows I am (one of) her biggest fan! I blame my rather inadequate ADHD mind! Btw I like listening to you GB.

    Pls delete my comment above EC. So embarrassing!

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  37. Well, now I’m confused. Her main account’s suspended and her backup one’s still going? Huh?


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  38. I don’t need no steenkin’ Bitnation Passport, I have my Ooky Spooky Club membership card, which is just as widely recognised as proof of identity and for providing legal immunity.

    Gotta love Baglady’s request to followers, “Do your own research and let me know (because I’m too lazy)”.

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  39. If the worst that had happened to Jesus was a bad report on Facebook, you’d wonder what all the fuss was about. Just a teensy bit presumptuous comparing herself to Him?

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  40. Actually even when people did believe in witchcraft, in England (and Spain) they had fair trials (by their standards) with a lot of acquittals because the evidence didn’t stack up. When the Inquisition investigated an outbreak in the Basque country for example, they set free all prisoners, exonerated the ones already executed and condemned the accurser as having made the whole thing up (“the devil was indeed at work here” one inquisitor said “but in the person of the prosecutor”). Due process and fairness can overcome defective knowledge much of the time. The problem is that the internet isn’t a good place for fairness and dispassionate analysis of the facts doesn’t attract eyeballs.

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  41. Not that everyone who believes that “To be a member of a secret society is a form of TREASON” is necessarily a Nazi. Just saying, things did not end well for members of groups like White Rose during the Third Reich.

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  42. I watched the very entertaining comedy horror film Drag Me To Hell last night. I love the original 1957 film upon which it is based Night of the Demon aka Curse of the Demon.

    While watching the film I was struck by the resonances of one of the characters, Mrs Ganush, with several Hampstead Hoaxers. Mrs Ganush seems like a blend of Ella, Abe, Belinda, ADP and others who, for legal reasons, will remain nameless.

    The narrative includes the following elements:

    A loan officer, an ordinary woman just trying to do her job, is approached by an elderly lady called Mrs Ganush who has defaulted on her mortgage payments and is about to lose her house.

    Mrs Ganush takes the loan officer’s decision very personally and things get adversarial and very nasty

    Mrs Ganush, while unable to manage her finances and meet her mortgage payments has the ability to summon a wrathful monster that launches an all out campaign of harassment and intimidation against the unfortunate loan officer. The poor woman is not safe even in her own home and cannot sleep at night due to the nightmare of demonic stalking and harassment.

    I was quite struck but the similarities between Mrs Ganush and various Hampstead hoaxers. Mrs Ganush’s complete inability to manage her finances and to take responsibility for her own situation and her summoning a demon (in the case of the Hampstead hoaxers the demon is the collective wrath of a tidal wave of deluded, angry, sadistic trolls) to ruin the lives of various innocent people who were just doing their jobs or trying to live a normal life is very striking.

    On a tangent

    The original, classic 1957 Night of the Demon can be viewed here

    The evil magician character is loosely based on the occultist, cult leader and alleged MI5 / MI6 agent Aleister Crowley. The demon itself looks very silly and comical by today’s standards, but the editing, cinematography and acting are superb. Well worth a look if you have not seen it.

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  43. Your woman Yolanda is an absolute nutcase. When I had fb I use to read her posts to cheer me up. Sweet feck trying to understand anything she posts is a nightmare. She is one delusional, paranoid woman who puts others in danger. And her wee side kick, who bounces on threatening anyone who disagrees with Yolanda is worse. The treats and language are like something out of a squadie canteen. The both of them need serious help. I can’t understand why they’re not sectioned.

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  44. Unfortunately it still goes on. At least one a week is reported. The victim is told to be at a certain place at a certain time or the family will be shot or burned out! The first time I heard this I was shocked “making an appt to be kneecapped!” Now they do it differently, don’t know the difference, as victims were getting DLA benefits or putting in for claims from the Northern Ireland Office

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  45. Wow, and I missed this when you put it up! I’m so sorry…fascinating and horrifying. I know her McCabe videos are blocked in Ireland, but I wonder whether Sgt McCabe and his family ought to know about this post as well?

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  46. No worries EC. I was disgusted to read it. Yes indeed, that would be an excellent idea. I can send you contact details if you don’t already have them.

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  47. I’m gutted that she’s not give me a mention.😥😭 I been wondering when my name will pop up somewhere I’m deeply hurt I’ve not got a label yet unlike most folk have.😂🤣

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