Maggie Tuttle’s weekend event falls flat

According to attendees who contacted us following Margaret Tuttle’s ‘Children Screaming to Be Heard’ conference this past Saturday, the event was definitely underwhelming. Lower than expected attendance, combined with dull speakers spouting the usual drivel about ‘social workers selling babies’ and ‘Satanic ritual abuse yadda yadda yadda’, left audience members wondering why they’d wasted a perfectly fine Saturday.

Belinda McKenzie, Sabine McNeill, Neelu Berry, and of course Maggie Tuttle were all in attendance, and we understand that this blog came under fire for a number of offences, including having artificially lowered attendee numbers by creating 79 email personas, snapping up 80 tickets, and then failing to appear on site.

(Note to team: Next time, we really must try this! Brilliant idea. As long as the tickets are free…).

Only 45 of an expected 200 people showed up, so there was a distinctly hollow ring to the room.

However, distinguished ‘expert commentators’ such as Sue Reid of the Daily Mail, friend of John Hemming and Sabine, who has built a reputation for speaking on the topic of ‘baby-snatching’, kept participants entertained with interesting, if fanciful allegations:

Twitter convo-'bedside babies'

Sue Reid coins a new term to bash social workers; Natasha Phillips is happy to regurgitate it.

Bedside babies 2016-04-24

Except, you know, there’s no such thing.

We understand that the Hampstead hoax was discussed at some length, though we’re still awaiting a full report on that. However, we hear that the topic of ‘Satanic ritual abuse’ received rapt attention, along with allegations that this blog is written by ‘the abusers’.

Those of us who’ve been at this a while are aware that Maggie Tuttle’s charity, ‘Children Screaming to Be Heard’ is no more; it ceased to exist on 3 December, 2015, after a 4-year run.

CSTBH-ceased to exist 2016-04-24

This doesn’t mean that Maggie T. cannot run events using the charity’s name, but it does mean that any monies collected in the ex-charity’s name must be declared by her as income. We’re sure she is well aware of this, but just in case, we’ve forwarded the info’ to HMRC.

As a courtesy, you know.

A more enlightening alternative

For those who prefer their child protection conferences served up with integrity, might we suggest the Second Child Protection Conference, to be held 3 June, 2016 in Birmingham?

As conference co-founder and trustee of the Transparency Project, Sarah Phillimore notes:

It’s easy to moan about something, it’s a bit harder to actually do something that might change it for the better.

I hope very much that the second Conference is going to plant the seeds of serious and positive change.  There have been discussions since June last year about what we could do and those discussions are crystalising into something quite exciting.

In contrast to Maggie Tuttle and the rest of the Hoaxtead pushers’ dangerous and divisive fear-mongering, CPConf2016 looks set to help families and professionals develop better ways of communicating and working together for the good of children and families.

What a refreshing idea.

Fear mongering-cstbh 2016-04-24

 

48 thoughts on “Maggie Tuttle’s weekend event falls flat

  1. I do hope that the information on this website filters through to the CPS in view of the active proceedings against Neelu Berry and Sabine Mcneill.

    It would be wrong for anyone to speculate on its effect (if any) in the pending proceedings a trial, however the following points are reported contemporaneously

    On 23rd April 2016 a conference that was organised by Maggie Tuttle (held at RESOURCE FOR LONDON CENTRE 356 Holloway Road, London N7 6PA) was attended by Neelu Berry and Sabine Mcneill.

    Neelu Berry was witnessed distributing leaflets outside the conference.

    Sabine McNeil has published the article below on 24th April 2016

    Scrolling down through the page reveals numerous articles that relate to items barred by injunction or relate to the ongoing proceedings against Neelu and Sabine.

    If anyone feels inclined to let the CPS know about any of this (so that they can consider its merits – if any)then the CPS can be contacted by ringing the Blackfriars Court Center – listen to the menu, one option gives you the number for the CPS

    Liked by 3 people

    • Or possibly because he realises what a stupid idea the whole thing is and doesn’t really want to come over. In all likely hood, given his stated intention to cause trouble and to work as a “comedian” whilst over here, he would be turned away by immigration.

      Liked by 2 people

    • What she’s pointing out is how the system is failing and going wrong since private businesses have been allowed to get involved in something that, imo, should be run by the state and the state only. I’d go further and argue that privatizing anything connected to social need is bound to end up being a money-driven cock-up. From my point of view the system IS broken but I wouldn’t trust the facts or arguments brought by anyone who works for the Daily Mail. This is interesting and just about nails it:

      http://www.fivechinesecrackers.com/2009/11/disgraceful-fact-free-scaremongering.html

      Liked by 1 person

      • Agreed, Doris. The other day we posted an article about the current state of the child protection system, as told by a mother whose infant was taken into care. It’s very clear that the system is terribly broken, and is failing people on both sides of the divide: families as well as social workers. It’s far beyond our remit to address this in any comprehensive way, but it’s an important factor in understanding how people like Belinda McKenzie and Maggie Tuttle have gained a foothold.

        Liked by 2 people

    • Is this the Sue Reid who visited “Miss G”? Where her skilz failed to unearth the fact that Miss G’s putative niece was in fact only related through a tenuous link to a distant aunt who was from the same village as Miss G’s mother? Or was that Christopher Booker? He certainly missed Miss G being used as a reason for the couple to have the right to live in the UK, an application that was being compiled mere days after they moved in. Oh, what I could do with skilz like theirs. I have a little inkling that despite legitimate concerns about vulnerable people’s money paying people to look after it leaving them less, the couple who moved themselves into Miss G’s house were actually very mercenary and showed their true colours pretty quickly.

      Sue Reid who for some reason believes there is a link between MMR and Autism? And that is AFTER Wakefield had been totally discredited.

      If she talks about the parents I think she does, then I’ve only been able to find out because the father at least is posting stuff all over the Internet. He’s gone full legal woo, admiralty law, Black’s Law Dictionary, multi million pound ‘fines’ on officials, the lot. I have sympathy for the parents, I’m human so humour me, but I am not shocked by the awfulness of the supposed baby snatching. I hope the parents have a decent solicitor.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Why am I not the least bit surprised that Sue Reid is an anti-vaxxer/Wakefield devotée? He’s experiencing renewed popularity in light of a new film called ‘Vaxxed’, which is getting loads of attention since it was recently yanked from the Tribeca Film Festival (big scandal starring Robert DeNiro, who essentially created the festival soon after 9/11, is the father of an autistic son, and has become the ‘documentary’s’ biggest cheerleader). Wakefield is a pernicious fraudster of the lowest order who simply won’t go away and scares uninformed and/or incurably gullible parents out of vaccinating their kids to this day. He lives in Texas, is very close to Alex Jones (big surprise there), and has made a fortune off his scams and fearmongering. Makes perfect sense that the über-paranoid conspiracy / troofer crowd still clings to his discredited, mendacious nonsense as gospel. Personally, I’ll stick with the opinions of leading medical practitioners/ researchers worldwide, not to mention the amazing work of award-winning journalists all too happy to taƙe him on/ skewer him in magnificent public fashion (e.g. Brian Deer), thanks…

        Liked by 1 person

    • Isn’t home birth without an attending medical professional legal in the UK? It’s a growing trend over here and I know plenty who have done it, almost always with no complications. I’ve never heard of a case involving the intervention of social servicess. My curiosity re: the details surrounding the specific story she tells is piqued..

      Liked by 1 person

      • It is legal. In the UK NHS midwives will attend home births too. They count as medical professionals and can prescribe certain medication such as some types of pain relief.

        If a woman wants to give birth on her own in a cave that wouldn’t be illegal. If a woman wanted a birth that was very risky and could lead to the death of the baby, that wouldn’t be illegal as far as I am aware. If a woman didn’t get medical care for a poorly baby that had been born, that’s another thing entirely. If a woman doesn’t understand about what’s happening enough to make an informed choice, should she be left to die?

        There has been a very sad case in the UK where a woman concealed pregnancies and avoided medical professionals.

        “Child 3: By March 2010, staff in Children’s services who had come into contact with DD believed that she was pregnant once again; DD denied this and sought to conceal the pregnancy from the authorities. In June 2010, on a home visit, DD was found cradling a baby born in her home; the baby was believed to be 5-10 days old. Child 3 (male) was at that point seriously dehydrated and undernourished (it appears that the parents had sought to feed him with cup-a-soup), with lesions on his head believed to be caused by Bar-B-Q tongs which (from information provided by DD and BC at the time) BC had used to assist in the delivery (DD denies this). Following Child 3’s birth, DD became mentally and physically unwell. She was diagnosed as suffering from a delusional disorder (she was commenced on oral anti-psychotic medication); she suffered a seriously distended bladder which required catheterisation. Child 3 was admitted to hospital for treatment, where he was discovered to have a hole in his heart.”

        http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCOP/2014/11.html

        And also this court case involving the same woman.

        http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCOP/2015/4.html

        Personally, I think like life can get, it can sometimes be more complicated than simply invoking a person’s right to refuse medical treatment.

        Liked by 2 people

        • Thanks so much for that info, Tracey. I didn’t think homebirths, assisted or not, could possibly be illegal in the UK, which has been far ahead of North America in that regard for AGES.
          After a difficult
          experience with my first birth in an American hospital- completely due to the philosophies and practices of an inflexibly arrogant, overbearing obstetrician and his affiliated institution -I did a ton of research into this before going through L and D again two years later. After loads of digging and talking to European friends, I chose a CNM over an MD and a birth center over a hospital.
          CNMs here have the very same privileges you listed nowadays, but were vilified/viewed as backwoods ‘quacks’ for far too long. I also chose a birth center over a hospital or home. The nurse-midwife route is -in low-risk pregnancies such as mine- a FAR less medically interventive, more relaxed one than its alternative. Admittedly, that view is based largely on my personal/subjective experiences (which were like night and day). I never felt comfortable with the home birth option (though I VERY nearly,*unintentionally* had one the second time around anyway – ten short minutes made all the difference ! ), but I completely respect whatever decisions responsible parents make regarding the most intense, momentous of life’s ‘big events’. Obviously, the ethical components behind such choices are far murkier and complex if any complications exist during pregnancy or arise in the labor /delivery process.

          I truly hope the tragic story you cited represents an exceptionally rare scenario, and suspect it does…still, simply horrific and too sad for mere words.

          Liked by 1 person

      • Is this the same ‘newborn story’ that’s been plastered all over Facebook recently? The one where they don’t tell you exactly what the ‘alternative medicine’ is that they advocate? Google MMS or Miracle Mineral Solution. The father of this poor baby is a strong advocate of this poison and calls himself a ‘health minister’ of the Genesis 2 church. Basically, their idea is that this miracle potion will cure anything and everything and should also be used as a preventative measure, including putting it into a baby’s bottle. What is this wonderful elixir? INDUSTRIAL BLEACH!!
        So basically, they have been pseudo-scienced into believing that this stuff is essentially salt when in actual fact it is highly toxic and has killed a number of people who have been suckered into this scam.
        Now tell me again what good parents they are and how they should be given their child back!

        Liked by 1 person

        • Yes, I believe this is the same family, Rose. I note that you work with an organisation that’s dedicated to helping parents keep their children, so I’m especially pleased that you’ve commented on this. I think it’s important for people to realise that Belinda McKenzie, Maggie Tuttle, Sabine McNeill, and their ilk are not representative of lay parental advocates, and that pseudo-journos like Sue Reid are not necessarily telling the full story.

          Like

          • Thanks & yes, we’ve been doing this for a few years now but rather than paste ourselves all over the usual groups bemoaning the plight…blah blah blah, we just quietly beaver away in the background, winning cases & sh*t lol. We keep pace with who’s who & who’s to be avoided & I’m pleased to say we spotted the Hampstead hoax pretty much straight away and with a bit of digging, this latest ‘newborn case’ also. Essentially, we care about the children first & foremost but are not afraid to call bullsh*t if a case comes in where the parents are dodgy. Sad to say, but sometimes the kids are better off out of it.
            We make use of the media when there’s a worthy case but we do so honestly, with integrity and within the law. Not impressed with Sue Reid’s portrayal of these quacks tbh.

            Liked by 1 person

          • You’re welcome, and glad to know you’re out there. I think those who quietly beaver away are the true heroes…especially when you’re driven by the wish to help families, rather than the wish to spread the gospel of Belinda and Maggie. Children are sometimes better off away from their families, and to claim otherwise is hugely harmful. So glad to see you here!

            Like

    • The removal of any baby or child is horrendous and I do feel for the mum and dad.

      I think there’s more to this than has been told above and I suspect she might be (not sure) talking about Xxxx Xxxxxxx and his wife. Xxxx was ‘exposed’ by the BBC for selling Miracle Mineral Solution.

      http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-33079776

      They have a You Tube channel called Our Baby Was SNATCHED by Social Services.

      She mentions the couple live on the south coast. The Xxxxxxx’ live in Southampton. Xxxx used to work for a pharmacy so that’s a fit.

      Liked by 2 people

      • “Her partner is a businessman who used to be an NHS pharmacist.”

        According to Xxxx’s Linkedin he was a pharmacy assistant. Bit of a difference there.

        Liked by 2 people

      • I did a bit of digging and think you’re right. I came across that FB page…the father is an alternative medicine practitioner of some kind, & the mother (who I believe is Portuguese) has a scientific background. Southampton is their home, too, so it must be the same couple. It appears that the FB page has played a role in their current predicament, but I’m still confused about certain details …only getting one side of the story so far…

        Liked by 1 person

      • Even without hearing the social services side of the story, I can see why, to some extent, the child was removed. Their behaviour was rather strange and suggested they had something to hide. They wouldn’t let the midwife, the GP or the police enter their home to check the baby was alright. Social services would obviously be concerned that [father] may believe the hype of his ‘miracle cure’ and be tempted to give it to the baby.
        The more difficult part is whether it was right or wrong for social services to keep the baby once they established it was healthy and that he had not given the child the ‘miracle cure’. There maybe more to the story though and from what I can tell, they didn’t appear to want to work with the system. I believe he has taken the ‘freeman of the land’ route.

        It’s difficult to understand why his partner, being a cardiologist (iirc) would allow him to selling an unregistered, uncontrolled and completely unproven substance. It made me wonder if she has a recognised qualification and experience, or if she decided that she is qualified having read some material online, and just describes herself as a cardiologist.

        Liked by 2 people

  2. Pingback: Maggie Tuttle’s weekend event falls flat | ShevaBurton. Cross of Change Blog

  3. On a separate issue, how the heck is Tory Smith’s channel still on Youtube? Don’t they have sufficient staff to really check complaints or do they just not care?
    Please can someone answer this question; the ‘time stamp’ boxes that appear when making a report, is that the time I’m actually reporting it or the time within the video that the offensive content occurs? If it’s the latter what does one put if the content is offensive throughout?
    Anyhoo, I’m sure you’ve all seen Youtube’s terms etc but surely they are breaching their own policies by not acting in cases such as Smith’s and could be prosecuted?. So much corruption and laziness and downright indifference from these giant corporations and so little accountability it’s shocking.

    Liked by 3 people

    • I’ve reported that channel (clearly to no avail) so many times it would make your head spin. I have friends who live in his home state, Indiana, equally disturbed/alarmed by his revolting channel/videos/ interviews on YT and elsewhere. A couple of them are working quietly but diligently to expose some serious dirt on the creep/get him perma-banned. I’ll keep you informed of any positive developments from this side of the pond. He’s vile beyond words and potentially dangerous…not just your garden-variety psycho. Thanks for your efforts to rid the internet of his repulsive presence!

      Liked by 1 person

    • That’s a very good question. I would love to see YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, and Google called to account for failing to enforce their own terms of service. They seem to have no sense of accountability, except to people with copyright complaints, which are apparently far more important than court order breaches and outright illegal material.

      As for the time stamps, I believe those tell the person reviewing the complaint where in the video the offensive material begins. If the whole video is full from start to finish with material that violates YouTube’s terms and conditions, I would usually just start it at 0:00:00.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Totally agree re Google etc.
        I came across a video claiming a father of some children terribly exposed by these ghastly false accusers had surfed the net searching out child abuse material. But the IP addresses they claimed were his were with a company called TPG which is an Australian internet provider only available in that country. Idiot.

        Liked by 1 person

  4. It’s interesting to note that the videos of Maggie’s conference (the ones that have been posted on Youtube) all have an interesting omission – that is any shots of the attendees at the conference.

    The videos seem carefully edited so as not to show who was present.

    Its hardly surprising, bearing in mind that certain persons who attended are prohibited in their bail conditions from having direct (or indirect) contact with other individuals who also attended the conference. Such contact renders the person liable to a breach of bail conditions – something that carries a real risk of that person being held in prison on remand until their trial in July.

    CCTV is somewhat harder to control though.

    To secure such a breach going before the Court would require either photographs, video or a witness statement from someone who was present as evidence of the breach.

    It seems nerves are showing, along with an abundent lack of common sense, or respect for the Court.

    Liked by 2 people

    • I noticed that as well, and even think I can hear N’s audible gasps/utterances of enraged agreement (almost sounds like a small evangelical tent revival at certain points) several times during the recording attached to the video above.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. That Tory Smith bloke is awful and the tales he tells are absolutely disgusting. They are far beyond peoples stories of alien abductions etc. I get the feeling that his tales turn him on in some way and i wonder about the subscribers to his channel also.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. Belinda’s latest waffle about the conference (on her Knight Foundation pseudo charity website), note the lack of updates about her other campaigns – do I see a fire dying to dull embers, soon to be just a memory (a nasty one at that)

    Interesting to hear hear description on the attendance on Saturday…. Obviously now a dying (and rather dull) ember…

    Are people seeing the light and waking up to smell the coffee?

    Liked by 2 people

    • Is she actually expressing some sort of veiled support for the very real destruction of the temple complex in Palmyra by ISIS? What has happened to the Yazidi, demonised as devil worshipers, with an ancient religion with traces of ancient Mesopotamian beliefs, doesn’t tug at her conscience even a tiny bit?

      Well, why am I not surprised.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. It seems the loyal supporters are falling one by one

    John Grahams (Butlin Cat) wordpress blog:

    No posts on his facebook page since 6th April…..

    Liked by 2 people

    • Is it his or olgyugly’s site most recently stepped up the filth online about me, that in fact, evolved from bels bat cave, a high gate and hub, from which emanated an anormous web woven by spidy sabs, or was it butlin stalking cat ? either one, it doesn’t matter, both lead back to a conspiracy began 2009. And also another even more interesting and deserving culprit. No i am not ignoring it, but hadn’t realised why i was waiting for this treasure, now it is time for me to return, re turn, turn, it is turning round.

      A really well worded letter towards all platforms, with reasons, examples, no.s of complaints, and the full picture of their co opt of all things child protection, and the murky results of their interference, compared with what could have been a refreshing, honest and clear amount of testimonies, poems, songs with Cross of Change as a hub, with links and lists to the enormous network, worldwide……… in order that all groups, could, had truth and hope, kept her word…..had a global data base, and ways to email out news, petitions, statistics, to relevant networks, and help set up ways to get help to survivors , fast…especially in crisis, which is what happens, when memories no longer remain suppressed……

      Imagine how different that would be…and so that is now, what i want to return to helping create.

      Now why and who, might not want that to happen, who already have networks to share stuff, and who might be able to bring together nasties in all kinds of social media arenas, especially that take advantage in all of those arenas, from alternative to batshit crazy, to clear out sharks and even politicians……remember folks, paedophiles really do exist everywhere, and by that i mean probs around one in tenish, in all walks, levels, religions, political parties………….etc, same message i had ’93 and 2009/10,

      So in that case, so are survivors….and hence, various types of groups exist, and then their particular way, aim or barrier, will keep divides, i just want to be able to cut through all that, and collate real information, so that solutions, can emerge…….they are out there, but costly, for survivors.

      That more holistic, complimentary therapies are not freely available gets in the way……

      So alongside, any fundraising above necessary costs, including emergency help to families in crisis, building centres, sanctuaries, with all the right things, like padded rooms, and creative, body mind spirit, food growing, nurturing , family centre retreats, and practicles sorted, cos local authorities would be paying to learn, or for our services eventually, perhpas,…….but i reckoned it was doable, and we could inspire big stars, and others to help create some massive events, in hyde park and o2, a world song, including all the forgotten survivors especially of residential schools, and both indigenous and our children packed of, as displayed in many films, books, now.

      Obviously as only one person, i need a core of purely minded people, to hold the integrity so that energy collected can be spread to do as much real and effective good as possible, and that would have been energised 2010.

      I only control that the core is not allowed to be governed by any belief system, Paul Randle Joliffe, FFJ ers have attempted many times, to force me to work under their umbrella, it has looked that way, at times, unbeknownst to me, sometimes…. The Christian lobby, ex Admins also began enforcing their scriptures and stuff, hence i chucked them out of the group, and some real creeps have at times, done all kinds of things, to sabotage, but as i have pointed out, many times, i have attracted attention to things online, and i can recognise indications of being tracked, hacked, helped and i bless those guys in free ways clearly watching my back and doing stuff, that lets me know, this is al traceable, trackable, and provable.

      So i would love to have some help from the contributors here, even tho i know none of you, who you are is a mystery, but i do know the strength of integrity and expertise. Fairness, and allowance for and respect for all beliefs…..i think we might have most here, i certainly have friends online and engage with many of all beliefs and parts in the fight for justice.

      The blacklist is going to be updated…..any backlash onto me, will be noted and seen, to help the world of cybercrime experts to be able to help us rake out this evil, i reckon……

      So Tory Smith, and that they promote him……is going to be enough for the kind of experts, now registering this disinfo hub of sickness encouraging, spreading…..Bel might think she and saby both smirking , clearly believing they are still going to keep going……. oh boy …… my bomb is ticking,, and i am going to make a few calls today,,,,,,,had to rest and really breath for a few days.

      Luckily my workers and support is as good as they can make it within constraints, which is to let me do my own thing healthwise, just i have to buy it, and if i go docs i get told off, and given meds , but mostly not, cos i admit to being suicidal at times…..i could go on, but have listened and shared with enough people to know i am certainly not alone in this, just that we are rarely, still taken seriously enough, and thanks to bels hall belles and hawkers, and spidines web/matirix, and links to those others, well avast i bet, wouldn’t have worked for them,,,, i or others might well have alerted avast to them at some point, and i have often supported petitions to keep the net free, but if i made a comment, it was the same message, but please then, take responsiblility with child protection….that is a must, in any area of work, surely, ……and i have seen many signs that this is indeed the case, ahd has been happening.

      I simply want to keep it simple at the core level of making sure this issue is dealt with, and i think it is only that i seem able to hold a free platform, with the right back up, and support i think that is needed for an online hub……………

      Join The Dots, would be a good hub to start, the guy who set it up, recieved merciless harrassment and had to be protective, they actually in their terms and using all the methods they accuse ss of, stole my son, and so i have also had to be protective, and kept it to my messy blog, and with my name on all i have pushed out on this, because, i can rely on those that noticed my groups and my massive splash out there, from a facebook group.

      I know many others essentially agree with this, and i invite them to come forward with help,
      When people say what can i do, i say well……….here’s what we need….what can you do ?
      Firstt off people with time to help on the tech and setting up of tools, admins, mediators of the kind needed, security to spot and keep out the despoilers, etc…… writers, gigs, safehouses, people, systems to remain with law and services, money and safe account, proper accounts, simple access rules, to cover emergency help, so helplines, and lists of ones available, and funding local groups out there already working with integrity, UK needs a big kickstart, given the sabotage has been effective, but in that so will their undoing…….and i will be calling meetings, or attending some with mps and professionals, workshops can be set up, reasonably quickly to train social workers, gp’s to understand survivors, beyond what has been taught them, through The Survivors Trust, thus far……..Hence, many survivors do not like or trust those forming central groups for the inquiry…… There are some events coming soon, The Transparancy Project and VoiceCSAUK, I thinks, so i must get events updated, for uk, too….. so i am going to focus on linking up European groups, i got to say when i last looked at some new sites, i was disturbed by the artwork, ?

      We just need to identify the paedophiles operating now, and stop, learn how to prevent them, but taken the UK core rotten ness out, will help us to protect innocence, moreso…..now who and what kinda thing wants to prevent good people from uniting to cause that to be possible ???

      El, as before, i have waxed lyrical, and now too tired, to spell check, read back even, so if you want to hold it back, or if you think i have said too much, i will copy it to my blog, and correct later, too. 🙂

      I’m sure they know, but just so i can tell the police who wrote and promoted the stuff online recently that is uk based, ? thanks, I am now pressed to take charge. charged to press, er, pressing buttons,….i had a big black russian, just now, of the spirit kind……. so those that understand me, will chuckle, those who need people who are going down to feather their own nest, or keep their cause alive, just know, that any of the good people, are welcome to begin again, and be part of a better network,

      Like

Comments are closed.