When should we stop?

Sometimes it’s good to pause and take stock.

Earlier today, we posted about some of the victories we’ve seen as we’ve followed the Hampstead hoax. Now we’d like to take stock in a different way, in response to a provocative question posed by commenter Tom from the blog SpyCulture. Here’s part of what he says:

Put another way: at what point do you stop? At what point (realistically, not some fantasy where these cunts are thrown in the clink and exposed on national primetime) do you decide to call it a day, say you’ve done what you could do and move on to other things? Because if you’re still doing this in a year then I have to wonder why – is it about them, or you? The longer this goes on, the more it seems this is about you. You can’t let go. You feel compelled to keep on stalking these nasty idiots. That doesn’t speak highly of your mental state. When all’s said and done, they’re just a small band of fuckwits making untrue allegations in a world full of people making untrue allegations. It’s not like a war got started off the back of their lies.

We find this a very interesting question too, Tom.

While we don’t agree that all we’re doing is following people around and pelting them with stones, we’ve asked ourselves the question, “When will it be enough?”

We’ve been at this for the better part of a year. Contrary to the accusations from the hoax-pushers, we’re not paid operatives (nor are we Ricky Dearman, whom none of us has ever even met). We have lives outside Hoaxtead: families, jobs, practical and social obligations—things that have nothing to do with this case. As Danielle G. pointed out in her comment this morning,

Before this blog came into being, all of us were working away in our own little ways, daring to question this blatant hoax – in the face of unprecedented hostility, slander, abuse and threats – and getting multiple videos removed, including ALL of the original ones that started it all (courtesy of Henry Curteis, who’d uploaded them at Sabine’s request, even though she’s since desperately tried to deny it, despite irrefutable proof of her complicitness).

This blog isn’t just one person bleating about a perceived injustice. It’s a lot of people, from many places and many walks of life. Some of us might have little in common with others, were it not for our shared dedication to opposing Hoaxtead. Some of us have formed firm friendships as we’ve worked together. But always, the work helps cement us as a group.

Are we doing any good?

In short, right now we think the good we’re doing makes our work here worthwhile.

We’ve assisted in a large number of activities that have helped to slow down or halt aspects of this hoax. We’ve reported countless videos and blogs. We’ve forwarded evidence to the relevant authorities, and have seen this bear fruit in the form of arrests, injunctions, and police cautions. We’ve helped facilitate a discussion that counters the hoax’s dominant narrative, and has helped equip people to defend themselves against those who make false allegations.

We’ve also created a space in which those who oppose the hoax—and more important, those who’ve been directly affected by it—can feel safe expressing their views. Yes, sometimes those expressions involve low humour or even (gasp!) silliness. Sometimes they involve slagging people who’ve put themselves forward as Hoaxtead pushers. Sometimes they involve ‘outing’ would-be vigilantes who think it’s okay to make terrible allegations against innocent victims from behind a mask of anonymity. (And no, it hasn’t escaped our notice that many of us use anonymous online personas as well, though perhaps that’s a discussion for another day.)

Tom is quite right that in the grand scheme of things, Hoaxtead is just a small corner of the network of lies and conspiracy theories out there in the big world: “When all’s said and done, they’re just a small band of fuckwits making untrue allegations in a world full of people making untrue allegations. It’s not like a war got started off the back of their lies”.

This reminds us of a story of a small boy, wandering down the beach and picking up starfish one by one, tossing each one back into the ocean.

A passerby asks him, “Why are you doing that?” to which he responds, “The tide’s going out. If the starfish stay up here on shore, they’ll die”. The passerby says, “But there are so many starfish! What does it matter?” The boy says, “It matters to this one”.

Right now, we do this because it matters to the people affected by Hoaxtead. They’re still being harassed, their families still feel the effects of this hoax. We aren’t foolish enough to think we can rescue everyone, but we do like to think we make a difference, one starfish at a time…and so far, we’ve haven’t heard differently.

So. When will we stop?

Tricky question.

The best answer we can give, for now, is that we’ll have to make that decision as we’ve made all our decisions so far: as a team, with input from our readers. Until then, we’ll keep throwing those starfish back into the ocean.

Royal_starfish_(Astropecten_articulatus)_on_the_beach

82 thoughts on “When should we stop?

  1. Excellent reply to an interesting question which has been posed, EC.
    I, personally feel that while Abraham and Ella are still spreading the hoax in interviews, then we must continue.
    I also do not think it is a fantasy that Abraham and Ella will one day be brought to justice for their actions.

    Liked by 2 people

    • I don’t think that’s a fantasy either, though I do have concerns at this point about them returning to the UK and potentially disrupting RD and his children. Still, the more they campaign as they have, the more they build the case against themselves.

      Liked by 1 person

      • I repeat though that the outcomes of many family court cases, where abuse did happen, do not then lead to any conviction, nor redress, nor repercussion for the abuser…… so, there does, in my view, need to be a rethink and a way found, that can still protect the children, but also take the abusive parent/s to task.

        Liked by 1 person

          • It would be better for all children, and really needs to be before the care decision is made, it needs speeding up, and it probably could be.

            The reason is also because any offenders list is not complete, i’m talking UK. There’s been a right old mess made with checks. US is further ahead in many ways..

            Less paperwork, more hands on, proper help, solutions, kindness. Firm if needsbe, but if serious abuse is clear, then, sure act swift, somehow too many are the wrong way round.

            But i’m seeing signs, that they know it won’t be tolerated, nor will people be silenced,

            And getting these destractions out the way, can only help. On these issues, we need to be really genuine,

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  2. I think his criticism is based on false premise. They are not a ‘small band of fuckwits’. Many of them have fingers in many pies, their tentacles have considerable reach. Sabine McNeill for eg has been campaigning in Europe; she appears to be taken seriously by some.

    Clearly, some are mentally ill and I agree little is gained by poking them with Internet sticks. But some of them have influence. And the more that can be done to shine a light on the reality of their activities, the better – in my view.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Thanks, Sarah. I agree that some of the people involved in promoting the hoax have a much wider sphere of influence than others. Sabine, as you say, seems laughable to many of us, but is taken seriously by enough people that she is a dangerous influence to many. I shudder to think of the number of families that have followed her down the primrose path to disaster. Similarly, Deborah Mahmoudieh has the potential to cause a great deal of harm, which is why we follow her so closely.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. I understand that it might look that way to some, but i’ve found some far reaching effects, too.
    I’m hoping that once we can stop with regards to this case and the people, that perhaps some might be able to help in the future, to prevent this type of thing.

    For now tho, it is not over, but i do think, it is a time, when it might not need as much attention,

    This blog is effective, some would love it to stop, they were just about to launch in Oz, we have stopped them, but they will regroup, re arrange themselves and morph again, without those of us, that can spot their traits, tracks, tactics, being aware.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I hope you’re right that this blog can provide a blueprint for others who want to combat this sort of thing, Sheva. That’s a really inspiring thought.

      Once one is aware of the ‘traits, tracks, tactics’, it’s much easier to see the pattern and stamp things out before they have a chance to really begin.

      Liked by 2 people

    • did i say too much, didn’t i say enuf…….it’s already happening people. The only times i have needed to act this way, or have recieved such attention, blocking, smearing was from serious real child abuse rings.

      Liked by 1 person

    • I think, at least for me, this site has been a useful template for future projects against the SRA narrative. From a Satanic point of view there will be a future outcome of a site, probably known as Vinegar Tom, named after a cat of the same name used as evidence as a familiar of a witch in a witch trial, which will be the Satanic contribution against future SRA hoaxes.

      The SRA narrative is as most people commonly know an accusation that seems to target everyone, regardless of nationality, race, religion, politics or wealth. The SRA narrative has been used against Satanists and other minority outlooks for over 2000 years, it is nothing new, but it has resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands, and the persecution of hundreds of thousands more, be it Cathars, or Templer Knights or the crazy old woman everyone in a community hated. When individuals go against the status quo, it was often they who ended up being accused of witchcraft or SRA, Joan of Arc (burn’t for wearing men’s clothes, also accused of witchcraft), and her right hand man executed for likely false allegations of killing multiple children in Satanic rituals.

      From the Satanic perspective, these witchfinders walk a well worn path of making SRA accusations, playing on hysteria and irrationality in order to gain personal profit from the destruction of innocent people. To them SRA is a religion, a narrative that in essence remains the same today as it did 1000 years ago, only morphing in form and target of people to destroy. I come to the table knowing that these dishonest parasites have killed multiple individuals of my philosophical outlook, and if they could, they would have me killed too. I am grounded in the reality that this narrative must be challenged, and neither misjudged or underestimated, because history shows the harm it has done, and will do.

      Vinegar Tom is still about a year or so in the future, but it will be another useful tool to keep the SRA “religion” of these witchfinders in check.

      Liked by 1 person

    • I’m assuming Tom has his own reasons for his ongoing concern with what we’re up to, but yes–I do find it a bit odd that he’s so concerned with what we’re doing. However, he asked some interesting questions, which I felt deserved answering.

      Like

  4. February will be the anniversary of my involvement and since the number of YouTube video views and comments has diminished greatly I’ll comment on YouTube less and less as a result.

    Abraham and Ella are paranoid and obviously feeling isolated, their few supporters are mentally ill. Even those will disappear as they move on to some other bogus SRA or NWO thing, leaving Abe alone on YouTube spouting the occasional TBMC bull to zero readership.

    It does make me wonder what will happen to Ella when Abe grows tired of her or the money runs out. He isn’t going to hang around and she doesn’t look the sort that can cope on her own. In years to come will she try to repair the damage for the children? Despite my disgust in her, I hope so for their sake.

    Since this place is likely to be the only place where news of that lots court cases appear, I’ll keep dropping in. Although sadly it is likely that the courts will merely give them a slap on the wrist so they may continue to destroy peoples lives.

    My wish is that we knew for sure what happened to the children, it’s none of our business and we can speculate, but as our American cousins say, it would give a sense of closure.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I think you’re right that the number of people interested in the case has diminished lately, though there’s been a concerted effort on the part of the Hoaxtead hawkers to push the thing out into the public arena again. Abrella’s ‘big U.S. debut’ with Ed Opperman failed spectacularly, and despite many promises and reassurances their own blog still seems to be down. I think Abrella’s sense of isolation and paranoia will continue to grow, as their readership falls.

      As for what might happen to Ella…at this point, I believe she’s backed herself into a very uncomfortable corner. She’s displayed a spectacular indifference to her children, and I doubt that relationship will be easily repaired. It would be nice to know how the children are faring, though as you say, that’s really none of our business. Perhaps we’ll know at some point in the future; more likely, not.

      Liked by 2 people

      • As long as the videos remain on YT, there will be people seeing them for the ‘first time.’ I dealt with one just today, who (as expected) told me that “SRA was real” and that I was to “wake up!” Yawn…they’re so predictable!

        Liked by 3 people

      • That’s the reality, everything wrong about this, was made to happen.

        They can carry on blaming, moaning, forever, and the end of the video, switches to the new business, i’ve picked up on a few others, that are involved.

        I find myself thinking they are acting, and i wish again, that were true, and to be honest, it might actually explain why the children were able to speak in all the ways, gone over, again and again, I’d love that to be the case,

        Has anyone else actually thought it through from that angle ? what if they were ? and this was being used, to force change through, might the spooks do that ? might they, when the vatican is being challenged so hard, by the likes of John Brown ?

        We’ve been under no illusion for a long time, i came across the sharon kilby, thing the other day, and what a spew of confusion….. i can’t read it all, and correct it, but i’ve no real need to, i really am going to start telling or writing my story, even my job centre is encouraging me, she said i inspired her….:) that day, Butlin Cat called me a shill, and i had a lotta laffs, telling him that yes indeed the government that day, had agreed to pay me for my work, which has been voluntary, and i live simply, but if i get into donations raised, it will be overseen properly and be put to effective help..

        I know some amazing people, and during chats, over the years, enough are out there, that would be able to help get it independent, but none of the diabolical crap that has gone on.

        It was a surprise to see Matty McVarish on Victoria Derbyshire, today, maybe there was more bullying than anyone realised, till listening to his interview, the otherday.

        Maybe all this homophobic slurring, is to try and throw off blame, from their ring of deciept, now i’m back thinking, nah, there just all crooks🙂

        I don’t know how this will read, i’m a bit brain dead.

        As things get more serious with the inquiries, etc, this has awakened that warrior in me, which i hadn’t expected, but i have a better idea, of what i can best do.

        Plugging miraculous cancer curing cannabis oil, whilst selling the truth, healing, empowerment, and like varying circles that link up, and overlap.

        Many more are turning away, and i think i see signs that some who were bullied, but didn’t post about it, and thought it was just what we all get, cos we do, but i tend to push it out in the open, if i want to tackle them, I think some have realised and found the source of many threads that lead back to that centre of the web, that spidybine bragged about.

        I do think hemp is great, btw. But the whole thing is snake oil sales, and the worst kind of direct sales tactics, used.

        Like

        • oops, i’m so tired, but a fast typist, and my grammar can’t keep up, nor did i realise i inserted a paragraph, so no, i have no intention of ever selling anything bad, ever again,

          i meant them, i think they were gonna franchise, mlm and attach it to this viralised thing, and that was the bit i missed out, i began by saying that it had all been caused, and i for one, would not have stepped in, but that it went out so far and wide, and now even, the could go from show to show, flogging their wares, on the backs of this, unless we stop em.

          Hence the blacklist….which please all help with maybe, it can all be collated here, if you want, or just drop them in comments on my blog, or something, anyone i find online advocating for these freak cases, will go on it, simples, and this will help those within and without the system, to gain clarity and hear the voices of people that can actually speak about this, like john, like me, like matty, and matthew, and others, loads of others, that can be easier to identify, now that we’ve called them out into the open, in a way, i don’t think they bargained for.

          Liked by 1 person

  5. When does one stop? Probably when the antagonists stop providing so much fodder. I think it is very important to build up a history of combating the actions of these false accusers and promoters of a hoax that causes so much grief.

    I think it most important that despite the fact the mass media published much about this hoax, they do really go into the back ground or the current on-going campaigns by this mob.

    I recall wondering about Neelu’s endless waffle about NESARA and SWISSINDO rubbish to discover the truth of the history of this scam in what I thought was an unlikely place, the website of the very respected Southern Poverty Law Center which keeps track of dangerous right wing cults in the USA. Their timeline of the Militiamen cults which are infested with Common Law and Freeman of The Land rhetoric exposes NESARA as a conman’s terrible scam to rip off 100s of desperate farmers in the USA facing foreclosure. He was eventually jailed for theft of many of their life savings.

    Freeman cult activity has caused many deaths in the USA from innocent coppers to US government employees (Oklahoma City) and it’s wise to keep an eye on this UK lot seeing they call for the execution of judges and anyone they choose.

    Young people discover this stuff every day and they need to be able to seek out alternative sources that provide the truth.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. I don’t think it’s necessary to pinpoint a time to stop. I guess like most things, people just sense when the time is right. Which will obviously differ from person to person.

    While it maybe just a little band of fuckwits, information is easily passed to large audiences with the internet. I think it is important that such bullshit information is challenged. The question of “why bother”, which is what Tom’s post boils down to, can be applied to almost everything in life, and life itself. Also, if deriding some of the people who spread such nonsense produces some self gratification, I don’t think there is shame in that either.

    Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

    Liked by 4 people

  7. Is this one new? I have not listened but spat my drink out at the T-Shirts…..

    CONTAINS IMAGES OF THE CHILDREN

    https:// youtu.be/ w7IzFYybRKw

    [Video URL broken up to avoid picture of children]

    Liked by 1 person

    • It’s probably a nod towards Project Monarch, an offshoot of MKUltra. I realise there’s a lot of disbelievers but the CIA project did exist and Derren Brown does a good job of showing “mind control” at work – albeit not, I think, by exactly the same methodology. It’s not the first time “symbolic” mugs have been displayed in this matter, there was one in the summer showing the children with parrot mugs beside a cannabis plant. Although, it may have been photoshopped.

      Regards

      Liked by 2 people

  8. I believe Hoaxtead does an excellent job at providing a counter narrative to the hoax believers. It is always important to hear both sides of a story so an individual can make their own minds up on what they believe to be true or not. If Hoaxtead didn’t exist then the loudest voices would be from those pushing the hoax and people will probably still come across this story in years to come so it is important that they don’t just see blogs etc that report the hoax as truth.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. For me this site gives me a focus upon which to work with others in a common purpose against a bunch of hysterical and noisy extremists trying to convince the media, authority and the public that Satanists ritually rape and kill children. Each individual comes to the table with different motivations, but the common purpose is to counter-act the corrosive dishonesty of a small malicious minority of people. The witchfinder should pray to what god, spirit or cosmic butterfly that this site exists, because had this been a pure Satanic campaign against them, they would not like what we could manifest against them, because unlike this site we are not limited by respect of the law and ethics.

    If an individual is suffering a cancer, they don’t stop all because 90% of the cancer cells are destroyed, they know that those cancer cells can grow back and eventually kill them. It is the same for the witchfinders, there will be a natural point when the Hampstead Hoax will some to a natural end, which might be marked by the completion of various legal cases, existing or about to begin, and the complete return of the children from the care system to their father. It is a moment, when everyone is in agreement, both the witchfinder and those opposed to them, that the Hampstead hoax is dead, and the witchfinders have lost.

    Personally, I am still frustrated that there is still no legal actions as yet happening against Belinda McKenzie. I also think that until Abraham Christie and Ella Draper have been arrested and convicted for their part in this hoax, there can be no complete ending.

    Liked by 2 people

  10. Fingers in many pies indeed. They have been busy in the Marie Black case.

    I have been sent this email – don’t ask me why. Ms Daniels appears to think I am supportive of her efforts although how she has that impression is beyond me.

    I will redact their email addresses, although I am sure it is not a courtesy they extend to others.

    If you are lucky enough to have missed the Marie Black case, I write about it here. http://childprotectionresource.online/helping-parents-leave-the-jurisdiction/

    They are a very active group of people indeed.

    Original Message—–
    From: Terence
    Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 14:15:49
    To: lynne.daniels
    Subject: Re: Continuing concerns re Marie Black’s failure to receive treatment for her seriously injured knee and information about HMP Bronzefield where she is being held

    This sounds terrible. Its good that she has you to support her. It seems that Butlincat’s letters to the Ministry of Justice did some good for Maurice when he was detained.

    You might like to do the same and raise the matter with your MP to raise with the Minister. Not that he’ll do much.

    Liked by 2 people

  11. I hadn’t realised they were now championing for her, Marie Black ? The piece i read, sounded as tho there were a few people quietly supportive, and making sure, she recieved the right advice. But i havn’t checked back, to see what if any developments….. Thanks

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    • This is the problem. The ‘small band of fuckwits’ pop up time and time again in various different cases. The damage they do is quite serious. And I don’t think they will ever stop because they are fuelled by a righteous belief in their own infallibility.

      Liked by 1 person

      • I think that the more publicity they receive in cases like this, the more pumped up their egos become, and the more entitled they feel to continue destroying people’s lives.

        Like

  12. Do you not feel that you could be ‘feeding’ this motley crew the attention their lives lack? Does the reaction now take precedence over the original reason?

    Liked by 2 people

    • It’s definitely something we’ve considered, Reginald. Are we just contributing to prolonging the thing by continuing to talk about it?

      I can argue it both ways, but ultimately what it comes down to, for now, is that this blog serves as a strong counterpoint to the hoaxers’ narrative. We have a largish daily readership, which leads me to believe that we’re still filling a gap for many people; and we engage in actions like our recent campaign to get Abe/Drifloud suspended from Twitter–an outcome that means literally thousands (about 6,000, if memory serves) of abusive, libellous, and harassing tweets have now been removed from that site.

      We’re mindful, though, that at a certain point we’ll need to back off. As many of our commenters have pointed out, there are a number of potential landmarks where we could consider that, and we’re keeping our eyes open for them.

      Like

    • No, it doesn’t, Reg. With respect, those in focus on these pages are only a minuscule group, barely the tip of the iceberg, and if it wasn’t the Hampstead hoax it’d be something else. It appears to be a hitherto unrecognized fault in the human condition, a manifestation of mental illness the likes of which was unimaginable before the internet ‘connected’ us all and some of us ‘noticed’.
      The nutters are now posting videos online purporting that David Bowie has faked his own death – how hurtful for his family, friends and the millions of fans worldwide. So very hurtful!
      No letup needed, no leeway should be given. We live and have our being among the insane and contemptible.
      Yes I’m angry, and yes, rant over. Thank you all for your patience.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Ah, now I understand the Bowie/Rickman reference, thanks.🙂

        You’re right that Hoaxtead is merely the tip of an iceberg, but it’s the tip we’ve chosen to focus on–and I hope we’ve done a decent job of deconstructing it. The hoax promoters seem to go through cycles, retreating briefly, only to regroup and try again. Our goal is to keep up the pressure, so that all but the looniest of the lot understand that they won’t be able to get away with substituting ignorance and superstition for reason and justice.

        Liked by 1 person

  13. Whilst not strictly in keeping with the general subject-matter of this thread, I feel compelled to comment, as opposed to wanting to.
    “When should we stop?” You shouldn’t stop! You mustn’t stop.
    Though I’m preaching to the converted, the damage that has been done, is being done and will be done by this mental illness (that is rampant beyond the veneer of day-to-day living) is incalculable. A spade is a spade and the sooner modern psychiatry extends its spectrum to accommodate these ‘subtleties’, the better.

    I rest my case.

    ( I’m not expecting this comment to survive moderation, but that was not my point. If it simply acts to counterbalance another comment pending moderation, it will have been worth the effort. Lord Loxley is peachy keen, but I’ve yet to win the argument.)

    Keep up the excellent work!

    Liked by 1 person

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