Are the stalked becoming the stalkers?

Recently we’ve received several pointed questions from a commenter, particularly regarding our reporting around some activity that’s taken place on Abe & Ella’s blog.

Tom re Abe's blog-1Tom re Abe's blog 2We think Tom is asking intelligent questions that we all ought to be considering, whether we agree with him or not.

To do that properly, we need to set out the original purpose of this blog. Hoaxtead Research originated in early May 2015, primarily as a response to another blog that was promoting the Hampstead Hoax via digging up information on private citizens and their children—people unfortunate enough to live in a particular area of London, people who work at the original named school or church. These people continue to be harassed by Hoaxteaders, and some have suffered a great deal of personal turmoil and upheaval as a result.

Whilst there has been speculation amongst Hoaxtead hawkers that this blog is run by so-called ‘cult members’, in fact we are a group of unaffiliated people who were, and continue to be, offended at the lies and innuendo spread by the other side. We feel that a strong dissenting voice is hugely important, given that the mainstream media is extremely limited in its response to what is, after all, a small regional story.

One of our first projects involved ‘stalking’ the pseudonymous ‘Jacqui Farmer’, author of That Other Blog, with the goal of discovering her real name, and turning that over to the police for eventual prosecution. As it happens, she was writing from offshore, which made it difficult for the police to do much unless or until she returns to the UK. (We should add that the police face a similar problem with Abe and Ella—they fled abroad specifically to avoid facing up to the allegations against them, and thus will not face the courts until or unless they return home.)

Since those early days, this blog has reported on developments in this story, whilst also liaising with the police when we believe we’ve uncovered information that might help them in their ongoing investigations. We take this responsibility very seriously.

Meanwhile, though, our mandate has been to bring the perpetrators of the hoax into the light of day, and counter their narrative, which we believe to be false, damaging, and ultimately evil.

One of our main weapons is humour: satire, mockery, piss-taking, you name it.

Many of our regular readers are people who’ve been harassed by Hoaxteaders. They’ve had their privacy invaded, their children named online and described in terms of their alleged ‘sexual preferences’; they’ve received countless threatening emails, letters, and phone calls; their bosses and colleagues have received poison pen letters containing lurid descriptions of imaginary crimes.

If this blog can afford some of these people a chance to laugh at those who torment them, then we consider it a job well done. If we can provide them with information that might help them either prosecute or sue their tormentors, we’ll have achieved our highest goal.

As U.S. social activist Mary ‘Mother’ Jones once said, the aim of the press should be to ‘afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted’. We aren’t arrogant enough to believe that this small blog is large enough to qualify as ‘press’ in the sense that Mother Jones intended, but we do take her words very seriously indeed.

Yes, we have ethical limits, lines we won’t cross. Sometimes we’ve discovered those limits too late, by violating them and then realising we’ve messed up. But once we realise our errors, we do our best to own up and correct them.

All of this is to say that yes, we do understand that taking the piss out of Abe on his blog can be construed as a form of harassment, and no, two wrongs don’t make a right.

But…please note that the Hoaxtead hawkers think absolutely nothing of accusing anyone who disagrees with them of being paedophiles, murderers, rapists, ‘sodomites’, cult members….and they mean it. They aren’t just kidding around. In fact, this is why all of us here use pseudonyms: we’ve seen the damage these people can do. None of us want our jobs, our children, our lives targeted by people who will accuse us of the most revolting crimes imaginable.

So when we read the comments on Abe’s blog—comments that would be taken by most bloggers as legitimate dissent,  argument with his pseudo-science, or questions about his documented behaviour—well, yes, we found them amusing.

Even more amusing, of course, was his reflexive mass deletions. What might have happened if he’d allowed the critiques to stand? Or even if he’d taken issue with them, and not by telling the writers they’d burn in hell? We’ll never know.

Do two wrongs make a right? Absolutely not. No argument there.

But the comments we’ve seen (with a couple of exceptions involving Abe’s older children, which we flagged as inappropriate and damaging, and whose authors we don’t know) have all fallen well within the realm of acceptable, as far as we’re concerned.

Tom, don’t stop asking questions. They make us stop and think, and whether we agree with you in the end or not, stopping to have a bit of a think is always a good thing.

We feel it’s important for any blog like this one to examine its own motives and actions carefully, and to avoid drifting onto the wrong side of the ethical street. Questions like yours help us do that.

Question-Everything2-1024x362

37 thoughts on “Are the stalked becoming the stalkers?

  1. I can understand the point Tom is making as I think most of us know that Ella and Abe will not have the children returned, and some of the people causing harassment have been dealt with by the police. There is always that danger of becoming slightly obsessed with the case. However, I don’t think this case is as dead as Tom may believe and it is personal choice if someone wants to spend time challenging these people.

    As pointed out, people are still facing harassment and Ella/Abe are still spreading lies about innocent people, including the children. There are still people who come across the YT videos and wonder what is happening with the case. I think it is important to continue giving the other side, challenging Ella and Abe, and making sure people can make informed choices about what to believe. Another factor is that the children will almost certainly find the information online as they get older. I for one would like them to see that a considerable amount of people did believe them and challenged their abuser (Abraham).

    You tend to find that the people who believe in the satanic cult, also believe Hollie Greig was abused by a paedophile ring, and various other conspiracy stories. I have noticed that people on my friends list over at Facebook occasionally link to memes about those conspiracies. In the last couple of months there has been 9/11, Sandy Hook and a mention of Hollie Greig. That is proof that the lies told by these people can be picked up and easily spread via social media into the mainstream. It is only a matter of time before these children appear on some link and I think it is important that any lies, propaganda and misinformation is challenged.

    In terms of persecuting people I have to be honest and say I have no sympathy for Ella or Abe and as long as they keep blaming their victims, they deserve to be ridiculed and held to account. The same goes for the likes of Belinda, Sabine and Charlotte. I do however think we have to be careful about attacking vulnerable people such as Neelu, and some of the clearly distressed women who hang around Belinda outside court.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Dave, I fully agree–especially the part about providing some evidence that not everyone accepted the hoax, and that a substantial number of people felt strongly enough about it to mount a counter-offensive. Both new readers and ultimately the young victims of the hoax (Ella’s children as well as the other students who’ve been named) deserve to know this.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. On an earlier page, Tom commented:

    I guess that what I’m ‘afraid of’ is that when you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you. I obviously don’t know all the ins and outs as well as you do but I do know from personal experience that when you get heavily involved in something like this that the justified sense of anger turns into an angry sense of justification without you even noticing that it is happening.

    I do detect at moments (and only at moments, not overall) feelings of internet vigilantism towards these fuckwits. And like I keep saying – I’m on your side, I think they’ve got it coming to them, but if you’ve tried the legal route and that didn’t work and you don’t have the resources to hire detectives to find these people and deliver them, mob-justice style, to the people they’ve made horrible accusations against, then I’m not sure what’s left to try.

    So, if your intention is to both warn people about these figures then ok, I’m with you. If your intention is to take the piss and mock them for their wanton stupidity and attention-seeking behaviour, as well as express your disgust about their lack of care for the consequences, then great, I’m with you. But I’m sure you’re aware that there have been moments where it has crossed over into something it shouldn’t be, and needn’t be, otherwise you would not have written the new piece (which I think is very good stuff).

    I guess I’m just offering a warning that when you engage with the darkness of the human soul it does do something to you, can make you a bit numb to the way you choose to fight against it. We’ve all been there where we know we’re right about something and it pisses us off that we can’t get the right people or institutions to take us seriously so we consider doing or actually do something we shouldn’t, and it does come from a sense of righteous vengeance. I get it. I’m guilty of it. So I’m just trying to offer a warning against it, which does seem to have been heard so maybe we should leave it there.

    Liked by 4 people

  3. My personal concern is to put an end to Belinda McKenzie’s criminal activities. Belinda did a lot to promote this hoax and Hollie Greig hoax. She has abused vulnerable people for her own ends and libeled many innocent people. We need to make sure people know who she is and make sure they aren’t drawn into supporting her fake “charities”.

    Liked by 2 people

      • I resisted the urge to actually name any of her children, even though they are grown up, when we were focusing on her a while back. Shameless woman that she is, a few weeks ago Belinda sent out a circular email naming the most vulnerable of her children, and discussing her mental health problems in detail!

        Liked by 2 people

    • I presume you’re aware of the meeting set up between Ian Josephs, Sabine McNeill, Deborah Mahmoudieh and Belinda McKenzie on the 5th of November. Donate button for the Knight Foundation

      Children’s Rights First!

      London, GB
      110 Supporters

      This ‘internet community of good people’ is meant to bring us together: whether in London – or anywhere on this planet.Adults who know about violence and abuse against childr…

      Next Meetup

      Let’s Meet at the British Computer Society to talk about Onl…

      Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015, 6:30 PM
      1 Attending

      Check out this Meetup Group →

      Liked by 1 person

  4. I think it’s important to bear in mind that certain people, I’m thinking, say, Sabine here, aim for political influence and success in lobbying for changes in the law relating to child protection. Sabine and the rest will be sharing a platform with a human rights lawyer on the 5th November.

    https://punishmentwithoutcrime.wordpress.com/2015/10/16/uncrc-dear-un-committee-on-rights-of-the-child-childsnatchuk-is-in-child-protection-crisis/

    I find this disheartening. That’s putting it mildly. She mentions the Hampstead case yet again. She doesn’t represent me. In fact she’s the antithesis of what I believe child focussed campaigning should be about. She mentions the woman who was in the depths of a mental health crisis whilst heavily pregnant. The Italian woman who needed a Caesarian. I remember the case at the time and I was one of the first to explain to the world that it wasn’t social workers ordering a forced Ceasarian. The information was out there released by the council accused of this but people just ran with it because it fitted their agenda. It’s worth bearing in mind that the Italian courts had decided that the woman was unable to look after her older children. This sort of misinformation gets repeated ad nauseum without challenge, and without the propagandists of false information being confronted with the facts.

    There’s so much of this, the people are connected, even if loosely, and they just keep at it.

    Hollie Greig anyone?

    And it goes on, and on, and on…………….

    If I’ve crossed a line challenging this nonsense I’ll hold my hands up. I don’t want to hurt people.

    Every sensible comment I’ve tried to put to Sabine pretty much has been deleted by her. I put up one mean, borderline libellous one and she publishes it. Go figure that one out.

    These people aren’t interested in debate for the most part. They also do very real harm.

    People much more intelligent, sensible and knowledgeable than me have tried engaging with them and tried to curb their worse excesses.

    There are legal blogs. Newspaper articles. Legal cases. Nothing will stop the sort of people who think it’s ok to email children’s medical records to bloggers, campaigners, and so on. They have no shame. No sense of decency.

    I could list so many cases they’ve had their grubby mitts on.

    Even a poor old Joe Bloggs like me has had them cross my path one too many times for comfort. I’m not even a social worker, solicitor or campaigner.

    I’ve seen the harm they do. The nonsense they believe. I know the other side of cases which they don’t tell you about. I can’t, and won’t tell people the stuff that’s not in the public domain, because there’s a very important principle here. Vulnerable people are still entitled to privacy without bloggers, journalists, politicians, campaigners and various conspiritards invading every inch of their lives, and being duplicitous about it, just to further their own cause. That’s whether they are an elderly person with dementia, an estranged parent fighting for contact, or a child who has social services involvement in their lives. Other people manage to do good without sinking to these tactics. They have no excuse.

    But, sincerely, thank you Tom for making me take a step back and look at my own behaviour.

    And I have very little sympathy for Abraham Christie. He’s been relentlessly posting on YT and has answered no questions. I’m thinking Pookster here who has been polite, but determined, with very few slip ups.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I couldn’t agree more. When this nonsense moves unquestioned into the public domain, it begins to do us all great harm. We’ll be writing tomorrow about Sabine and her latest platform, btw.

      Like

      • Really El Coyote, I wish I could tell the world what I knew, but I can’t because it would be wrong.

        I actually know, as in really know, how wrong they are about a few cases. Some others I’ve worked out for myself.

        The American woman, Melissa Laird, her brother was reaching out at the time her case and legal fight was all going on. And now he’s almost impossible to find. Everything, the other side, someone speaking out, is buried under Sabine’s bull. If that was her aim, to be the gatekeeper, it’s worked.

        I’ve been called a coward right here on this blog for having the temerity to challenge someone who claims to speak for people, to campaign for justice. And he told me something that is not actually true. And then did it again, and again. And this is someone who is at the relatively sensible end of the spectrum. I wish I’d bookmarked the comment because I wanted to respond when I’d calmed down, but that in the end took a very long time.

        It’s fustrating, infuriating.

        And Deborah Mahmoudieh gets called an “EU Law expert”, again. She’s nothing of the sort.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Oh, I’m sorry you were called a coward here–that is not okay.😦 And yes–the frustration of knowing something is wrong but not being able to speak out…I have the same issue and it’s awful, especially when you know the other side is taking advantage of your inability to speak.

          Like

      • Maggie Tuttle will be there on the 5th too. What we call a ‘full house’. Also Ruby Harrold Claesson, Jamaican born lawyer, resident in Sweden but barred from practising legal aid work as she believes in the absolute right of the parent to use corporal punishment, which is, of course now unlawful in sweden.

        Abiding theme, as always, is that child abuse is fine as long as it’s kept within the family.

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10392102

        Liked by 1 person

  5. @ Tom. I appreciate your comments.

    I would like to let you know. I’m trying to do my bit, behind the scenes.

    I think people do go too far at times. I’ve said so too. It would be easy to just mudsling, but perhaps not always the right thing to do. Some people in the Hampstead Hoax camp are misguided not necessarily malicious, and I know that is recognised. Jim McMenanim for one. There’s some holding back that goes on already. Perhaps it should be more?

    Liked by 1 person

    • I think everyone in this matter have been reasonable and moderate in their challenges of these witchfinders. From a Satanic point of view it takes a lot of discipline on the part of myself and other Satanists not to take matter to a whole new level, but it is hoped justice, however slow will prevail and bring these witchfinders the justice they deserve.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. People have to keep things in perspective, the witchfinders are pursuing a campaign of abuse, harassment and defamation on the internet mostly from a location of anonymity and distant locations. The mediums through which these individuals are hosting their abusive falsehood need to be challenged aggressively or people will believe it.

    As comments show above, these witchfinders are now seeking a political platform to extend their campaign, and it is important that the people such as politicians, media, academics and other opinion makers are fully informed of the nature and agendas of these vile people.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. My interest in Hoaxted is that I have had 2 good friends who have been victims of internet harassment- one an 85 year old woman,
    And I have very good Hampstead friends who although they have not been directly targeted by the satanic loony hate mob, their good neighbours and friends have been. They describe a youngish family who were brought to the point of depression and complete puzzlement at how this came about and how they genuinely fear this mob who accuse them.
    When innocent people are unfairly attacked you must not underestimate how important it is that they know they have supporters who understand what misery is being imposed upon them.

    Liked by 2 people

  8. The hoaxtead case intersects with several “bigger picture” issues, primarily because the core hoax promoters profess membership in broader communities playing important roles in those issues.
    In the UK, one of those issues is the VIP pedo moral panic and related issues of police & social welfare officials utter confusion about how to properly deal with CSA predation and allegations of same.
    Internationally, and of particular concern to me, are the Truther- New World Order conspiranoids who continue to ambush and murder police officers in North America. THEY MUST BE CRUSHED, and frankly I don’t care a great deal how that is accomplished. You haven’t experienced that yet, in the UK, and hopefully you never will. But I do see aggressive expose about UK truther loony-ism as key to prevention of such disasters and I will support that, however it manifests.

    HOAXTEAD RESEARCH ARE HEROES!

    Liked by 1 person

    • Thank you so much, Justin. I’ve heard of some of the problems in North America, and am also alarmed by it. I hope in our small way we can keep letting people know that the ‘conspiranoids’ (great word!) are out to lunch.

      Like

Comments are closed.